When posts start to get in that 250+ range, we like to start a new post just to keep things running smoothly and for readability. Thanks for putting up with that.
With that said, an even greater thanks goes to each and every participant on this site - both those who comment, as well as the silent reader type. It is truly remarkable that YEARS after having lost an NBA team, that a site like SonicsRising can gather this much steam so quickly. And I think this is only the tip of the iceberg.
If you haven’t already done so, share the site with some friends. Folks you know who bled green and gold but haven’t been ’round these parts just yet. Share a link on Facebook, pass the word at the bar, cover some lame graffiti with it in your favorite bathroom stall.
You are what makes the site go, what makes it so that we want to create content and share our passion for the return of the Sonics to Seattle!
Someone said on the last post they they the NBA will eventually relocate the small market teams to big markets and that the Thunder won’t exist in 10 years.
That only really leaves the option of 3rd teams in the lLA and NY/NJ markets, a second in Chicago and the Bay Area as well as the upcoming move to Seattle . Am I leaving other possibilities on the table? Europe? Mexico City?
As second team in Bellevue in 10 years if they don’t know what to do w the Thunder?
Sorry about typos. I meant the last thread.
Thank you Chris, Brian, Mike, Kevin and everyone else for getting the community back together so quickly.
Not serious about the Bellevue “Reign” Just a funny thought.
I think that’s an over generalization and silly to be honest. Look at San Antonio. I don’t see the NBA leaving smaller markets for larger markets if they have owners who are happy in the smaller markets. I can’t see San Antonio losing the Spurs. I don’t see okc losing the thunder unless the owners demand huge sums of tax payer money (which I don’t see happening). Not to mention Sam Presti pretty much guarantees okc will have good teams for years and years to come. The new CBA seems to benefit smaller markets too.
This must be why there was the question mark in Montana on the NBA’s territorial map.
I haven’t heard many cities use the idea of a sports team to grow their city. To become a “major league city” yes, but openly use it as a growth model, no.
Without a team there is no ESC. No Esc there is no immediate financial impact, such as construction jobs and what that brings. So Sacramento needs a team to spark the economy. They are not relying on the team persay as much as what it may bring. Life is a gamble. The Kings may be their only foreseeable hope.
Sacramento > Seattle when it comes to losing vs. gaining a team. I know sympathy will not garner much if anything. It is the real picture.
Latest Draft Projections show the Kings Taking Keith Smart at #6. Yay or Nay? Or do we take a guy like Olapido?
San Antonio is a huge city. It isn’t a small market. That said. The Thunder are VERY successful and won’t be going anywhere…until the team sucks and supporting them is no longer fun. They better get a new arena approved while Durant and Westrbrook are still around.
This would be an awful reach, considering he coaches the team.
But I can’t imagine the NBA finds it that appealing that Sac’s economic hopes are pinned to them. I’m not saying they don’t like the idea of being the centerpiece, but they probably acknowledge the reality that Sac is conceding that it’s a city that needs saving (oh joy) and that it wants the NBA to go hand in hand with it on a big gamble.
Well, Missoula, MT > Sacramento when it comes to losing vs. gaining a team, so the team should move there.
Seriously, is that what you guys are grasping to now?
Seattle > Sacramento. Period.
Latest Draft Projections show the Kings Taking Keith Smart at #6. Yay or Nay?Or do we take a guy like Olapido?
I’m hoping they fire Keith Smart, but would love to draft Marcus Smart. He’s an outstanding defender, rebounder, and leader. His shooting woes I believe are more about shot selection than anything wrong with his form. He’s 78% from the line. And he’s built like a linebacker.
I like Oladipo a lot too. Gets into the lane at will, and a terrific defender as well. I’m big on Oladipo and Smart.
I agree. San Antonio Spurs are a well oiled machine and the City seems set for even more growth.
Oh crap guys, Marcus Smart!
I love Olapido’s athleticism, but Marcus seems like a ‘winner’ and fiery compeitior, Kind of a combo guard that can handle the point, attack the rim. I don’t think you take Burke at 6, the good thing for the good guys is that based on team needs Smart might be able to be had at 6.
Do you go BPA at 6? Not sure if SMart is BPA at 6, but he would fill in that need at PG.
San Antonio proper is big but that’s essentially meaningless. San Antonio metro population is about 2.2 million, or on par with Sacramento and Portland. It ranks at roughly 25th nationally, that is small in terms of sports leagues.
What kind of point guards are good for a triangle offense? Or does it matter.
whoever ian is interviewing on KJR right now just said that he personally heard phil jackson mention the GM job here in seattle.
They also pull from Austin and have a large military presence there (major military hospital, USAA)
Guys the reason Burkle/Mastrov are in on this (as businessmen who gamble to make money on investments) is:
Think of it as a roulette wheel these billionaires and multi millionaire (Mastrov) are playing.
Burkle and Mastrov are throwing down a little money (in their world its little) on #28 or whatever numbers. SO they are hoping to invest minimally upfront and hit the jackpot.
Hansen is putting a much larger bet on black and he obviously has a much higher chance to win.
So the odds favor Hansen big time because he is the one with signed PSA. He is to one that Stern has been helping for a few years now to get the NBA back to Seattle. He has Ballmer, who the NBA would love to have (anti-Prohkorov) and he checks all the boxes.
Burkle/Mastrov in a vacuum would be an outstanding group in their own right. They are hoping that the ball lands on their number by Hansen losing at the same time.
The chances we get the team are greater than 50/50 so my roulette comparision isnt the greatest but you get the point. Im trying to show how much of a long shot it is for Burkle and Mastrov. I think a big part of this is that owners dont really like it when someone comes in late and tries to muck up a situation.
I firmly believe that this is a posturing move for Sac whales and KJ for a future team. I dont think that the NBA is Dead like Sacramento is trying to spin. Thngs like that were said for Seattle in 2008 saying it will be a generation before the NBA will come back. KJ already looks great for the fight he has put up and in the long run if they get another franchise ala Seattle then KJ looks even greater. Posturing and positioning is what this about and if by the minimal chance the NBA says no to the Sea purchase and relocation then KJ wins quicker.
I’m guessing not on record.
I think as long as they get a top 5 or 6 pick they’ll get an very good player. Otto Porter may be the worst case scenario if they pick 6 instead of the top 3, and that wouldn’t be too shabby. The order will determine all of this because right now there is no consensus and the top 5 prospects or so could be interchangeable due to team needs. Of course the tournament can change some of the player’s stocks.
I keep writing lon posts and they dont get posted though it says they do Hmm
Just caught up on the last thread. Can somebody PLEASE tell me why we are allowing Sac fans on here to argue with us? I got no problem with allowing them to come here to exchange thoughts and ideas and to learn from one another. But the second they start busting out stats trying to prove how they’re better fans than us, I got zero time for them. Please keep this crap off this site. Thanks.
There really is no point to Seattle and Sacramento fans engaging one another at this point. There might be the 1% that actually want to learn about the other. But besides that, everyone else just wants to win the battle of being able to reason why their side should and will win. What is the point of any of that? It’s stupid and a waste of time. They don’t want to hear what we think, and we the same about their thoughts. I really wish we could institute some sort of embargo against Seattle and Sacramento fans communicating with one another for the next couple months. It’s exhausting and beyond pointless.
Some guy who does mock drafts at real gm says Otto Porter might be top 3.
I guess that is a question for the site admins, from what I have seen, I have seen sonic fans engaging kings fans on sactown royalty..I’m guessing it is okay if there is no blatant hostilities.
The cfox poster from Sacramento was fine imo. It’s actually nice to break up some of the group think and he/she was well informed and polite. I don’t agree with his/her optimism but it was nice to hear their side without awful spin.
Whoever is listening to Ian, can they confirm what Phil Jackson stated?
i must say we are 10 times more respectful of them when they come on here than they are of us when we visit their sites. if you ever post on sactown royalty get ready for a barrage of threats and some of the foulest language youve ever read on the internet.
he got annoying with his attendance chart and saying theres a “BIG DIFFERENCE” in support between seattle and sacto
Regurgitating CMD and StR spin is not “fine.” It I wanted to engage in it I would be on those sites.
Otto,
maybe Porter is top 3. I haven’t seen a whole lot of him this year. I’m guessing the top guys are Mclemore, Noel, Smart, Oladipo, Porter, and Bennett. Some teams might love Len too. I don’t really know what the order is but any team that gets a top 6-7 pick is getting a nice piece. I like Bennett too, but his D is atrocious. I don’t want to get too covetous, but I always like following the lottery even after the Sonics left. It’s way more fun when we are invested in it though.
Oh I missed that part. Nevermind, leave that sh*t at the door if you want to talk. It’s meaningless and proves nothing.
david locke voice of the utah jazz was being interviewed and really briefly mentioned that he overheard jackson talking about the job. thats the extent of it, just a blurb really. im surprised ian didnt press him on it a little more.
Oladipo would be my pick from what little I’ve seen so far …
cfox is fine. There was no trolling involved, I thought he was very respectful, nothing like the OKC trolls back in the day.
With all due respect, you don’t have to read every post …
Oh its okay, I will get covetous for you :). I’m just tired of all the ROFR, SEPA, IWLU, etc etc talk.
This rumor has been around for months.
Thanks. I think though that is the first time that we have a media member mention they heard Jackson talking about the GM job.
I’m tired of all it too. I’m just glad that as a Spokanite I currently have the Zags to distract me from this Sonics purgatory. Is it April 19th yet?
I agree, allow Sacramento fans to post here as long as they’re respectful (and we should be respectful to them as well). A lot of these arguments seem to go on and on with neither side convincing the other, but, well, that’s the internet.
Oladipo would be my choice. Love his motor, strenght, athleticism, and D.
But I think Smart and Muhammad are also good picks in the 4-6 range.
If we draft Olapido, wouldn’t we have to trade Thornton? He has 2 years left correct?
Isnt the concern of Shabazz is he is a mental midget?
Love Trey Burke. But only at 15-17 range
Chris Daniels says Venezuela dictator (President) is dead. I forgot the Daniels sometimes reports other news lol
yeah everyone is aware of the rumor. this is however the first time anyone has mentioned hearing phil mention the job.
haha i think that every time i see a non sonics tweet from him.
They should try to trade Thornton regardless……..the problem is nobody is going to want him at that salary for two years.
I’m more annoyed by the Seattle anti-arena troll who uses other media platforms to spew nonsense garbage, then comes in here as Susie Sunshine, just hoping to get a few “informed answers” to question he “has” about the project.
I normally don’t cheer when someone dies, but I am not shedding a tear about the death of that dictator.
Agree if we love Burke, then trade down. 6 is way to high.
Ah, yes. I forgot about Muhammad. Another nice player. Still Oladipo and Smart are the ones I really like. Both are tough competitors with good NBA bodies, and I love their defense.
Is Olapido a ‘leader’ or a follower?
I dont know much about his temperment or stability. Cant really speak to that.
You cant argue with his talent. He was the top prospect in the country coming out of HS, and he has been the best freshman in the country this year.
Not sure. Certainly leads by example. Tons of energy.
So why is the NBA allowing Kheriotis to submit his own offer? Can anyone submit an offer for any team now? Let’s start a fund so we can put in an offer for the Thunder.
I wouldn’t call him the best freshman, but he can score with anyone. I think that’s the knock on him is that he is one dimensional in that he puts up 20 and doesn’t give you much else. But scoring 20 is pretty good.
Anyone who wants to bid on the Heat PM me
since everyone else is doin it why dont we put in a backup offer for the kings? im game lets do it. hahaha
The Clippers can’t keep Eric Bledsoe right? I mean they can, but they wont pay the $$$ for a back up to Chris Paul?
I know Muhammed doesnt have a squeeky clean background based on his recruitment. But that tends to be a non issue if they perform.
I’m in. I’ll have equity partners lined up as soon as its absolutely necessary to have equity partners.
Interesting article regarding KJ…
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21805635/could-mayor-kjs-fight-for-kings-set-him-up-as-hunters-replacement
me too! i dont know any whales though but i have a dog and a cat. how much are they worth? i also have an aquatic frog. this is gonna work, i can feel it…..
Sorry if that offended anyone. Again, just trying to break down the areas where SAC may have an advantage over SEA. I mentioned in a previous post that fan support was one of them and someone challenged me on it, so I brought in the facts. Never meant to question Seattle’s fan support just show that Sacramento’s has been very strong. SEA is an incredible market for NBA hoops but so is Sacramento. I appreciate the respectful discussion and hope there’s a way for this to work out for both cities.
There is a difference of debating the advantages and just making ish up.
If we draft Shabazz, maybe we can pick up Eric Bledsoe in the Free Agent Market. Would be a good back court. Then hope we win the Lottery next year and draft Andrew Wiggins, or at least suck enough to get in the top 5. That is a stacked draft next year.
Well then, it was ridiculously poor form to imply that because Sacramento had a bigger arena, that their fan support is way better. And the point referencing pre-1994 seating levels had an “if you were real fans, the team would have played in a bigger arena- so, you clearly don’t care” air about it.
imo here or not kings are a top 5 lotto lock next year without DRASTIC changes made to the roster. they are awful
And unless you know precisely what context he mentioned it in, it’s worth no more than the rumors we already know.
If Phil Jackson really becomes president/gm/head of basketball operations or whatever the title may be, I would think he’d try to keep Cousins given his track record with talented yet troubled players. I also think Brian Shaw would become head coach and Mr. Kurt Rambis would be an assistant.
Also Otto Porter is nice and Oladipo is on espn tonight at 6.
I don’t understand why you keep insisting that I’m spinning things. I’m stating my opinions on the matter given the fact that I’ve been following the SAC situation for the past two years. There are countless layers to the story here that can only be fully understood (IMHO) by people who have been along for the entire ride. Most of you probably feel the same about the Seattle situation. If you don’t agree with me, that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean what I’m saying is garbage. Most of my opinions and statements are very similar to what those much closer to the situation than anyone posting on here, myself included, have been saying for weeks.
That’s nice, but one city is going to lose, and it’s probably going to be Sacramento. I’m sorry. There’s no reason to become friends or for the 2 sides to discuss things in any manner. I’m not rooting for you, and I know you’re not rooting for me. Let’s not pretend. If I think back to myself pre-Schutlz/Bennett I can muster some sympathy for the fans in Sac, it’s going to hurt and it’s not going to feel fair.
What did I make up?
agreed. could be he overheard jackson or he could have overheard some random guy or media member say it. with that being said im still iffy on jackson but i would defer to hansen and ballmer if they where to go that route
You’re very wrong. Most here in SAC are very much rooting for Seattle and have been for four years. I don’t care if you believe me or not but it’s the truth. I want Seattle to have a team. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean much.
You know out east try had citgo commercials saying how great Chavez was for Americans by paying for their heat. No joke
Sign Bledsoe, Draft Shabazz, Get Paul Milsap, get DMC to focus
BTW…Eric Bledsoe is an excellent example of even the god Sam Presti makes bad decisions from time to time…
With all the fishy circumstances with teams winning the lottery (ie. Cleveland, New Orleans) I wonder if we are in line. If so, I’m with you Otto. Let’s get next year’s. Also, I believe Bledsoe is under contract one more year but I could wrong.
ps. I don’t actually think the lottery is fixed but it’s possible that Stern’s scumminess knows no bounds.
I’ll take that at face value and say you’re a better person than me. Good luck.
Not what I intended at all. Was just implying that 90% of a 14,000 capacity building is less than 80% of a 17,317 capacity building. So even though 90% > 80% the dollar amount is higher for the bigger venue. Simply put, they sold more seats over 25 years than Seattle.
I still believe that the only way we can even compare whether either city has an advantage is if there is some kind of ruling that states the Maloofs didn’t make the sale public before signing the PA with Hansen. If that doesn’t play out, nobody has any advantage, the sale is made to Hansen. The bids (no matter how many they allow before the BOG) don’t even factor into the decision unless they throw out Hansen’s PA due to the Maloofs not making the sale public and open to local investors.
Did someone really question fan support or did they question whether fan support is relevant? Fan support matters very, very, very little in this equation…hopefully that isn’t your key support to you argument on why the Sacramento market is better.
Attendance comparisons are ridiculous. I remember okc clowns trying to say they deserve the Sonics because they had high attendance when the Hornets were in town and the Sonics had lower attendance when they were trying to relocate the team. Seattle set world basketball attendance records in the Kingdome. It means nothing.
I have always been a fan of Sacramento and the NBA being together. It was known for years for having great fans. But Seattle was too, just ask anyone who came to Seattle in the 90s. We lost our team and I now know how the NBA operates. I no longer care about Sacramento maintaining their team because the NBA didn’t care about Seattle maintaining a team. I want my team back and if it means relocating the Kings then bring it on. The NBA started this mess.
then youre a mediocre 7 or 8 seed for a while imo. i dont want that. blow it up and go for the gold. but what do i know im not a gm
And that is still just noise. Doesn’t matter to the NBA.
There has been WAY too many instances in the past few years to NOT question whether or not it’s fixed. The year we got the number 2 pick for Durant comes to mind. How perfect for the eventually Bennett owned Thunder to get a high pick to take a once in a lifetime guy in either Oden or Durant.
I read the StR entreaty for Seattle. Sac fans cared enough four years ago to rack up 25 comments against it. They can get that many comments now in a minute when KJ gets caught in his zipper.
Be real; no one down there gave a s#!+ when Seattle moved, even though we told you you were going on the clock. And now you’re reaping what you sow. Go try selling sympathy to Milwaukee in three years.
I appreciate that. I feel the way I’ve grown up loving NBA basketball is a story similar to many in Seattle. I hate everyday to think about the possibility of losing our team and I am empathetic to the Seattle situation. It’s especially a shame when there are markets such as Atlanta, Milwaukee, and Charlotte that simply do not care about supporting a team. There are two great markets an two great fan bases here that both deserve teams.
Really? I think Shabazz/Bledsoe/DMC have pretty high ceilings.
No, he was trying to prove why fan support would matter. Everyone knows about the Kings support, just as everyone knows that there are more Millionaires per capital in the Seattle Metro area than just about anywhere else in the country. Guess which one matters more, fair or not.
What you don’t want to do is be the Charlotte Hornets, where they had nothing. You have A nice piece in DMC.
Also cfox, you should understand you’re talking to an extremely jaded, angry and hungry fan base. If Seattle was given the time Sacramento has had to work on this then maybe we’d be more on your level, but Seattle was sh*t on by the NBA. As far as we’re concerned the NBA has been working with Sacramento for years, going so far as to prevent a relocation of the team a year ago. Seattle received nothing of the sort from the NBA.
I like Sacramento, I like Kings fans, but I want your team here next season. Sorry man. I do appreciate your politeness and relative openness on the matter but we’ve been where you are and lost. We don’t want to lose again.
The question wasn’t relevance. I stated that fan support was an area where SAC had an advantage and someone replied that I was wrong.
Reaping what they sow? Sac doesn’t deserve this anymore than we did, and it’s not like we should be able to feel annoyed with them for not calling up an army of Sac fans to stop the moving trucks headed to OKC.
Things are starting to get really spiteful and ugly on the Seattle side of this equation in a way that makes me uncomfortable.
There is always an irony when someone from Sacramento says they want Seattle to get a team because what they really mean is “I just want you to take a team from somewhere else”…
Condotta makes a good point about a possible $75 mm relocation fee. Thats even more money for each owner and could be more motivation to approve the sale.
Haha. Great point.
Again, I wasn’t trying to prove any sort of relevance. Just responding to a poster who challenged that SEA had an advantage in the fan support column. You’re not wrong about the money being in Seattle as well as many other advantages. All I’m saying is the NBA has the ability to be profitable in two great markets instead of one.
Maybe I haven’t seen enough of Eric Bledsoe but he doesn’t strike me as much of a point guard, I think the role he is in as a high energy 6th man is what he is best suited for. I’d much prefer a slightly bigger, better shooting, steadier hand. Jarrett Jack and George Hill come to mind.
Thats kind of what I was thinking too
Where does the $75mil go- other owners to split?
Does he care that the franchise originated from Kansas City, even when they offered a $1 lease?
This game has been played for decades.
I certainly question it. But I do remember in a given year there were about 5 or 6 teams that you could spin it as a fix in order to help out a market or a new owner.
Fan support has never been an issue in either market. Not a factor to the NBA. They dont really care about that.
Isn’t there an arena design review meeting today?
im not huge on bledsoe and millsap. i guess what it boils down to is i dont think cousins will ever get it and be the guy. im not sure if shabazz is that guy either really i havent watched much college hoops this year honestly. again maybe im just not seeing something here. that core just doesnt scream championship to me…..
Agreed. Like I said before, there are fan bases elsewhere (Milwaukee, Charlotte, Atlanta, Memphis) that couldn’t care less if their team was sold and relocated. So in my mind, there’s no sort of ethical conflict or double standard in saying it would be better for one of those teams to relocate rather than a team with very strong fan support.
But is fan support measured in attendance numbers or the amount of money fans will spend in support?
Yeah. At $30 mm its usually a million for every owner.
So if they approve and its $75 then every owner gets $2.5 mm.
But we’re the hypocrites.
Say what you will. I’d imagine if they were in the top 5 in attendance these last five years rather than the bottom 5, the NBA would be finding another solution.
Sac fans made a conscious decision not to support their inferior ownership, but had they done so, relocating them wouldn’t be a topic of discussion.
I don’t understand the relevance here. The issue in KC was in fact fan support. That’s why they were allowed to relocate. KC was averaging 7k a game from ’80-’85 when most teams in the league were above 10k. Fans and gov’t simply did not care if the team left.
This is true, because if presented with the option of us taking the Bucks instead, I doubt many would object and hope for expansion.
NBA is a business. Attendance and support is nice. But what they really care about is $$$$$$$
Corporate sponsorships
Corporate sales
Naming rights
$$$$$$$$$$$$
That’s a good question and probably difficult to quantify. I agree there is more money to be spent in Seattle on many fronts (corporate sponsorships, concessions, merchandise, etc.) I was simply responding to a poster using the facts that I have.
No, you were responding to someone saying that everything that Sacramento had going for it, Seattle had going for it five years ago. Then you go ahead and say that the Sacramento fanbase is stronger. You really have a problem lying, don’t you?
Second, you say you aren’t trying to spin anything, but you also say this:
cfox:
My position as a SAC fan is to find our strengths and try to cover up our weaknesses
That is the definition of spin.
just because the mayor didnt solicite sea mammals and hold pep rallys doesnt mean they didnt care.
Not a bad way to earn $2.5mil- so if you look at it from that perspective it helps us in our favor
No, the owners left for more money.
Here is a little refresher:
http://deadspin.com/5978111/a-history-lesson-for-sacramento-how-kansas-city-lost-the-kings
I’m trying to have a respectful discussion and I don’t think you calling me a liar reciprocates that. If you want one side of the story and only want to know what Chris Daniels tweets, be my guest. But I’m posting here looking for the other side. Even though I am involved in STR and listen to Carmichael Dave, I want both sides of the issue. In the end, it won’t really matter what anyone’s opinions on here or STR are. If we win and keep the team, I will not gloat and will still strongly support Seattle getting a team ASAP. If Seattle gets the team, I will be devastated and even though you probably won’t believe me, I will be glad that you guys will have a team.
Why Bellevue? Maybe the organization can finally get the arena in Renton they were talking about in 2006-7! ;-)
Yes, that was me, and you are, because fan support is irrelevant in this equation.
If attendance really mattered to the NBA……there wouldnt be a team in New Orleans. But when they get a nice subsidy from the state it helps out a ton.
Both Seattle and Sac have great fans. That is not an issue at all.
The purchase and eventual move to Sacramento was premeditated, much like Bennett moving the Sonics. Kansas City was deceived, and even though they offered the team a $1 lease, they left. Doesn’t seem fair, because it isn’t.
“11,371 people who gave a standing ovation to every player, starter and reserve, during pre-game introductions.”
http://deadspin.com/5978111/a-history-lesson-for-sacramento-how-kansas-city-lost-the-kings
Sounds like a buch of people who just didn’t care, I guess they deserved to lose their team?
only wants to know what chris daniels tweets? wth is that supposed to mean? in this whole story there are a handful of guys who have been reporting meerly facts and not ignorant spin. cd is one of those guys. if you didnt know he was a seattle reporter you wouldnt know by reading his tweets thats for sure. cd and your guy lillis seem to be the only impartial local guys on this story.
Dale Kasler @dakasler
Mayor’s task force ramps up PR, releases report saying Sacto is better #NBA market than Seattle. Cites #NBAKings attendance vs Sonics
F u KJ.
FYI Eric Bledsoe is not a free agent this summer. He’ll be a restricted free agent in the summer of 2014.
swift’s aftermath
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/robert-swift-left-foreclosed-upon-house-leaving-massive-184535504-nba.html
A guy like Carmichael Dave is not a journalist. I agree that Bruski is very one-sided. Daniels is very much the same as Bruski. What he reports on the issue isn’t “wrong” but he either choses not to report some facts or just doesn’t understand some of them. I very much recognize SAC reporters’ biases and that’s why I’m looking for discussion here. It doesn’t take much to see Daniels’s IMHO
Let them cite attendance. It doesn’t further their case to keep the team. It just gives KJ and whoever else needs or wants it some political cover in 3 months.
And if Atl, Mil, Mem, and Char lose their teams they’ll deserve it because their fans don’t care right?
It’s a hard lesson to learn the true value of fans in the eyes of the owners. Unfortunately Seattle has learned the hard way. Sacramento is about I think.
Daniels and Bruski are nothing alike. Sorry, you’ve bought into a narrative that, I guess, your fanbase absolutely needs to buy into to stay sane.
Oh -this- should be good …
You should find Art Thiel’s site. It won’t matter, but I bet you’ll think he’s WAY more impartial.
“Monopoly?” They forgot they have 2 NFL team, 2 MLB teams, another NBA team, NHL team and an MLS team just down the road….
What narrative is that? I see it all the time. Daniels RT’s stuff that Lillis, Kasler post but leaves out some of their most important tweets that shine any kind of positivity on SAC’s chances.
Also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RapWrFkDpMU
/awaits report from McGinn saying Seattle is a better market as the city isn’t $2,000,000,000 in the red
All that means to me is that KJ is running scared (which he should be.)
CP3 is though. So if they sign him, which Im sure they do……….Bledsoe will be shipped at some point once that happens.
They they *do* support the 49ers and Giants in Sac, big time. Trust me
I am calling you out because were
But in fact this is what you were responding to by saying that he was wrong and Kings fans were better.
No where in there was he saying Sonics fans were better than Kings fans.
So sactown hires Democrat Party political hack Chris Lehane to slander Seattle. Is it just me or are Democrat interest groups killing the Sonics effort in BOTH cities. Unions, enviro groups, KJ…
Daniels has won awards for his coverage and does more than just cover sports. He reports nothing buy facts, from BOTH sides. Some with guys like Woj, Aldridge, Cooper and Bucher. Just because a reporter reports something that doesn’t fit your narrative, doesn’t discredit or make them biased.
I’m sorry. You are asking for the impossible. There is no way you can blame the fans for the bad attendance. Everyone knows Sacramento has had one of the best fan bases in the country. You know how the Sonics were gutted and made intentionally bad in order to curb fan enthusiasm, which lead to bad attendance? Yeah, we’ve been going through that since 2006. It’s a miracle people are still coming to the games after what we’ve been through with these god awful owners, coaches, and teams.
That’s what you have? Retweets and a question at the ASG? Daniels is an award winning journalist who has covered a wide range of topics, he doesn’t jump on rumors and gossip, he actually checks and double checks sources. Bruski is a Sactown blogger, nothing more.
That’s because as someone who was on the front lines of the Seattle/OKC move he realizes that … and I’m really trying my best to be kind here … there aren’t any.
If that is what KJ is going to gang his hat on, then he might as well give up now
Daniels only tweets things that were verified by himself or have been verified by others. He doesn’t do the off the wall analysis game.
DemocratIC Party?
Let’s keep in mind that the DemocratIC Party dominates both states, so it’s inevitable.
That would require the Seattle political community to actually play offense in this battle. So far we have ceded the fight to Sacramento - entirely… I think it’s time to fight back rather than sitting on the lead. But last time I suggested that I got shot down. So I may be alone…
I’ll take Daniels getting shut down any day over listening to a guy broadcast out of his garage any day.
They intentionally locked out the media from the locker rooms etc. as well.
There’s no reason to fight back because the people who matter know better. This isn’t a PR battle. The people in power are not going to be swayed by lobbyists.
I agree 100% on the Bruski front. His narrative is not at all what I 100% subscribe to. Gotta run, time to head home from work now. I really appreciate all the discussion and how respectful everyone’s been. I truly hope there’s a way for both cities to be happy and end up with teams.
Waiting on some ‘facts’ that will back up your argument
You know how after the Sonics were gutted to drive down fan interest, they moved? That’s going to happen here too.
I agree that saying “Sacramento should have had more fan support for their awful owners” is callous- but had it happened, they wouldn’t be moving.
Always love when stones get thrown at other fan bases….Charlotte was #1 in attendance in some of the years prior to Shinn taking the team to New Orleans. I wish people would stop thinking that their fan base is better than another fan base…it is a lame argument
You’ve been through so much, yeah, we know. But have you lost a team and then watched that team almost win a championship with a legendary player at the helm? Save it. Nobody cares about attendance.
A lame argument that Kevin Johnson is forming official taskforces to propagate.
There’s no need to fight back. Fight back against what dude? Sacramento has no say in whether or not this transaction happens. The BoG does, and attendance is irrelevant to the matter at hand.
I don’t see anybody (besides Kings fans) lamenting Sacramento for their fan support. Can we move on from that narrative?
The fact is many here in Seattle would prefer “E” to moving a team, IF it were an option-but it isn’t an option.
Wondering why Chirs Daniels isn’t all over the story today. Usually he’s all over this stuff.
I don’t really think we have to. IMO, what KJ is doing is a desperate plea to draw attention and relevance to Sac. Everyone, including the BoG, knows the strengths of the Seattle market so stating the obvious only looks like we’re worried; which we shouldn’t be. Our arena deal is as good as done, we have a massive ammount of both corporate and individual wealth in the area, and a storied history.
done. you have just lost every ounce of credibilty you may have had in my mind. im just going to ignore you and not respond anymore. sorry in advance for future events and i 100% genuinely do mean that.
Maybe I am too impatient, but I for one would like to see some counter-spin coming out of Seattle. Not from Hansen of course, but from somebody in Seattle, be it the Mayor or Jerry Brewer or someone. There is literally a laundry list of reasons why Seattle is a better city to have an NBA team right now but no one doing much to put it out there at the moment. Even if the BOG does not care about media spin, I am getting pretty sick of hearing this crap out of Sacto. I want a rebuttal.
Of course I do argue for a living and I hate not getting the last word in…
Selective retweets is all you can bring to the table?
Because he is a Seattle troll only interested in hurting Kings fans. Duh! :o)
So the city of Sacramento is running some PR crap saying they have better fan support than Seattle with some stuff they are putting out. Thats cool that you guys sell out. Should be commended but guess what which city made more overall in revenue? I have an inkling who would win that argument
I’m aware. I was just responding to Otto’s comment “maybe we can pick up Eric Bledsoe in the free agent market.” I should have used the quote function.
In any event, Bledsoe will not come cheap in the trade market. The Kings/Sonics would have to give up real assets to get him this summer. Given that I don’t think the Clips would be interested in a Tyreke sign & trade, we’d probably have to mortgage a bevy of future first rounders to get him. Not worth it IMO, especially since he’ll probably command nearly Lawson-esque money on his next deal.
BTW…saying a city like Charlotte, Milwaukee etc deserve to lose a team more only reinforces my point that you only “want” Seattle to get a team if it isn’t Sacramento;s
KJ will have spent more time arguing that Sac is a better market than trying to make Sac a better market.
KJ is trying to win the battle of public opinion, when in fact the NBA most likely wishes he would just stay quite
” I for one would like to see some counter-spin coming out of Seattle.”
That’s the beautiful thing about having the upper hand. You don’t need spin.
Owners don’t care about attendance, nba is not as gate driven as let’s say hockey is. Suite sales, regional television contract, licensing oppurtunties is where it is at
KJ can try to win the battle of public opinion, I’d rather the powers at be in Seattle focus on winning the war.
The point I was trying to make is the lack of fan support the last five years. Daunting to do so for an owner who isn’t invested- yes. But to then trumpet your superior fan support as the bell cow behind your bid is disingenuous.
For an open forum, sure are a lot of people who want the conversation to stick to the predetermined points that don’t make anyone uncomfortable.
Yep. The losing side needs the spin. That’s how it works after political debates, etc.
this is kj trying to position himself as a martyr. not very classy going after seattle though.
i know our guys have gag orders but i’d really like some news from our end to get people a little fired up.
Ditto… I went from working in politics to being a lawyer. So I hate letting arguments go unchallenged. Especially bought-and-paid-for arguments from hacks like Lehane and idiots like Bruski
lets keep our cool. we are up 10 late and theyre trying to bait us into a stupid technical foul or to get us off focus to make a run. work the clock, take good shots and be smart guys.
BTW…saying a city like Charlotte, Milwaukee etc deserve to lose a team more only reinforces my point that you only “want” Seattle to get a team if it isn’t Sacramento;s
Yeah, I’d actually feel worse taking the Bucks or Bobcats than I would the Kings, since both those teams started in those cities. Charlotte has already been burned once by the NBA, and the Bucks have a more significant history than the Kings.
Okay, STOP!
This is not Seattle vs. Sacramento. Not at least to those who matter. I appreciate those from Sacramento posting here, but you cannot expect us to agree with that Sacramento has better fans than we do. That point can be argued, but can never ever be proven. It’s a sports rhetorical question that can be answered. That goes for any fan base pitted against each other. Lakers vs. Browns. Rays vs. Maple Leafs. The argue,net can go forever, but there will never be an answer and there will never be a winner.
We cannot fight like this.
This has nothing to do with fan support. It’s all about money and the sweetest deal the NBA can extract before this is all said and done.
Nothing else, nothing more.
Just like everything else in America this will be decided by the biggest bank account and political clout.
I think I’ve only just got caught up on today’s discussions. I just have to say I’m not interested in fan base vs fan base arguments. I’ve seen and been a part of them too many times in the past 5 years and its just an exercise in futility.
Thank you Kevin!
I really hate to say this, but the gloves need to come off now. KJ, through his task force, is now blatantly going after us as a community and criticizing us as a fan base.
Agreed, but I think its ok to be a little perturbed when the mayor of the city whose team is moving starts down this road. .
I have to say it is amazing how there has been no news today but between the 2 topics their have been over 300 post (WOW ONLY 43 DAYS TO GO)
I have to go catch a flight so all I am going to say is
Have a good day
GO SONICS
Does anyone remember where we put the Gary Payton signal?
There is literally nothing of substance to report on this end until April 19th, and hasn’t been from the day the sale was announced.
We don’t need to argue that we’re better than Sacramento, we can just act like it.
Yep
Don’t get me wrong I totally agree with you being a little pissed about that I was too. I just meant more along the lines of posters from here or Sac trying to convince one another that the other fan base was superior and therefore more entitled.
Exactly!! I hate to go all 7-year old on them, but they literally started the name-calling. They hired a PR firm to trash us. At what point do we stop feeling guilty and fight these pricks
Just to clarify I really don’t see that happening too much from the Seattle side here.
Jesus … I’m taking a break.
You guys have got to stop riding this rollercoaster. Seriously.
KJ floats a report out there for political cover and people here are taking it personally? COME ON.
Seattle is in the driver’s seat, always has been from the day the sale was announced. Everything else from now til April 18th is IRRELEVANT.
For the Nth time: Everything coming out of Sac publicly from now until then is a face saving gesture to provide political cover for those who want or need it and set up Sacramento as a future NBA market if and when another team becomes available. THAT’S ALL.
I get this argument, but Sacramento is engaging in a PR battle against us and winning. We need to ask ourselves if we think the NBA can be swayed by public relations. I realize that the BOG decision will be based primarily on finance and ownership viability, but what if the finance issue is very close? PR could indeed play a role in their decision.
Agreed, I think I might take a break from here for awhile too.
Little off topic:
A person with knowledge of the negotiations, who asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to discuss city deals, said if an owner is not found by June, the Coyotes will move from Arizona.
http://m.glendalestar.com/mobile/news/article_d8669da2-85ad-11e2-9809-001a4bcf887a.html
I truly hope you are right.
It’s all he has left and as mayor, this appears to be his only focus. He was a greater player and is showing he’s an equally good politician…and that is not a good thing.
We don’t accept “but they started it” as an excuse from children, so why should we use it?
Let them do what they’re going to do. If you think it looks petty and desperate, it’s likely that a lot of other people, including those outside of our lovely city and even some of those in the NBA do as well.
Wonder what NHL will do? Play a season in KC, Portland or somewhere like that until a buyer is found?
If its close then I’m guessing you see something, not seeing anything means it is not close.
I don’t blame them, they’re grapsing at straws and the writing is on the wall. In a way I feel sorry for them as most have to know deep down what the inevitable outcome of this is going to be. If KJ wants to fight dirty by calling out Seattle’s support any and all admiration I have for that his efforts go out the window. Bringing up attendance is Bush League and he knows it.
Are they winning, though? They’ve gotten a couple positive articles (ones that even state things are a longshot or that the power is still with Hansen and the Maloofs) on the heels of their one big play at KJ’s speech, but it’s not like there’s a ton of national coverage on this. It’s not dominating ESPN or anything.
I don’t think even think there’s anything we can do to make this better. If we start throwing mud, does that really make the PR swing in our direction? Remember how people voted on all of those SportsNation polls. People want an NBA with the Sonics, they couldn’t care less about the Kings sticking around.
It would come to Seattle. Latest realignment designs points in that direction
Good point.
Truly the voice of reason!
Two things we could point out in our favor:
Seattle has subsidized the NBA in past (Coliseum, Kingdome, KeyArena), while Sacramento has not.
There are something like 12-13 Seattle or Tacoma area players in the league, suggesting a strong basketball culture. How many players in the league are currently from Sacramento?
Now that is pretty interesting, hopefully they are coming here.
I guess I can forget about taking a break from here as I think I’m addicted to this site lol.
Hate to see them play at Key but maybe showing off the product would help the a sale? “Try it before you buy it” stategey, I dont know. Its obvious they arent getting many bites down in PHX, I knew Jamison’s thing was fishy from the get go
“I get this argument, but Sacramento is engaging in a PR battle against us and winning. We need to ask ourselves if we think the NBA can be swayed by public relations.”
Waging a PR campaign against another market in an attempt to save a team has never worked in the past. Not sure why this time is any different.
And again for the last time: Sacramento has ZERO say or bearing on this transaction. Only the NBA BoG can invalidate this transaction. Let KJ cite attendance numbers all day. It doesn’t advance his case. But it does keep Sacramento at the front of the list for the next relocation, and that’s all this is about, and all it ever was about.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2013/03/05/sodo-arena-foes-in-legal-appeal-stop-rush-to-judgment/
So the union is now using a Washington state supreme court opinion to argue that the MOU is illegal.
Sacramento has pulled a lot of bush league stunts. They sent a baseless cease-and-desist letter to Anaheim two years ago, there was Jeremiah Jackson’s melodramatic letter to Hansen last year, all of KJ’s grandstanding and chest-pumping public statements, the glossing over of the way they took the team from KC, the way they keep distorting the circumstances surrounding the Sonics hijacking, and now this. I do wish we could fight back, but I don’t know how that would go and what good it would really do.
I wonder then if we have an NHL ownership group that’s ready to step up.
Hmm i just posted a seattlepi link regarding the ILWU appeal and comment says it was posted but it didn’t appear what gives?
DO moderated posts don’t show up anymore?
Heard skulleted longshoreman lawyer today. Talk about a sad, angry little man. He was ranting about McGinn and Seattle giving Hansen a pass on the environmental study.
Feel bad for the next judge that has to give this another 5 minutes.
The link i was trying to post mentions that the union is using an opinion of the WA supreme court to argue that the MOU is illegal. That the EIS should be done before snowball effect and any momentum starts.
I think the NBA put the gag order on the wrong people.
Doesn’t really matter what they argue at this point, they are filing too early. The more they appeal, the more they wear out their welcome on the case. They are working against themselves right now.
Ridiculous. What a grasping of straws. Like I said, the judge who has to spend 5 minutes on these guys will never get that 5 minutes back.
…or Portland. Anywhere in the West.
Yikes. Awfully chippy here today. Maybe I’ll take a break too.
Makes me think of an old Anthrax song line about “clapping with one hand”.
Don’t they realize we all know how politically motivated this? Even a lot of the union members would rather have the Sonics than waste time on this.
This is why Sacramento fans shouldn’t be allowed to stay long. It gets everyone too on edge with the he said, she said talk.
all the back-and-forth, sacramento-no-seattle, is misguided. it’s never city vs. city. it’s always city vs. league. some sacramento fans think david stern is their bff, but no commish is ever that. commissioners look out for the owners, who reckon that it is their league. ’twas ever thus. there’s really nothing unprecedented in sacramento’s love for the kings, nor is it impossible for a city that loves a team to see it moved. but what’s changed over the last generation — and cleveland’s uproar over the browns was the watershed — is that the leagues now actually recognize that fans’ hurt feelings lead to uproar and bad p.r.. so there might be some astute maneuvering in the last stages in order to set up a sunnier (or at least a quieter) reaction. i still think the nba wants to be in both sacramento and seattle at some point. i still think a cleveland-type solution where the franchise moves to seattle and the kings are held in temporary limbo until the arena/ownership thingamajig is totally complete and the league is ready to plunk in a replacement is a likely outcome. what i don’t see is the league yawning and saying to hansen/ballmer: “naaah, we’re really kind of set, don’t call us, we’ll call you.” money talks. owners walk.
I don’t understand why Sac fans are posting here? What are they hoping to accomplish? Testing out their illogical arguments?
What we learned today, it is because Chris Daniels is a biased Seattle troll and they want to talk up Sacramento’s strengths while hiding their weaknesses.
Hate them playing at the key but I feel that Seattle would do better with a established team
The impacts are that our members, their livelihoods, their jobs, the future of the maritime industry, the future of maritime jobs in Seattle are in jeopardy if an arena is located in Sodo,” said Cameron Williams, president of ILWU Local 19.
It is all about them. How can you appeal when the case was thrown out. They need to go away.
Sacramento has pulled a lot of bush league stunts. They sent a baseless cease-and-desist letter to Anaheim two years ago, there was Jeremiah Jackson’s melodramatic letter to Hansen last year, all of KJ’s grandstanding and chest-pumping public statements, the glossing over of the way they took the team from KC, the way they keep distorting the circumstances surrounding the Sonics hijacking, and now this.
Oh, and that state senator from Sacramento’s passive-aggressive attempt to threaten Microsoft. Can’t forget about that.
Paul Allen didn’t want NHL in rose garden, and really Seattle is a better market IMHO. Outside of that there is no serious competitors
Huh. In the game of Leagues only have so much power over their owners, comes this little nugget from Thiel:
He is good for something once in awhile.
Nope. Can’t take a break. Here’s Art…
http://sportspressnw.com/2013/03/thiel-fate-of-nba-kings-the-unexpected/
Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but Calabro is calling the Celtics vs. Sixers game on tnt. So sweet hearing him call the game not just on radio but tv. Brings back great memories.
They can’t move until we get the kings, but hansen had said he has heard from potential NHL guys in the past
Here’s a link to “Think Big” report:
http://assets.bizjournals.com/sacramento/pdf/home_court_advantage_report_think_big.pdf
Fairly amateurish.
Yeah but if the NHL is planning on moving the Coyotes in June that would fit nicely with the Sonics coming back. Although that’s ignoring the question of; “where would they play?” But still interesting timing.
Sacramento actually adjusted the amount of business revenue per sports team (including the Sounders, curious as to why they left off WNBA it was such a big point during the release party).
Then they close it out with an excerpt from the Seattle Times (who didn’t know that would come back to bite us). They are really reaching for straws.
I’d think they’d want more stuff supporting them, rather than the attack on Seattle. The (adjusted for number of teams) finance profile is how many big and wealthy companies are in each city, per team, right?
They’re making our case for us.
Also, part of their “big plan” is to add what they classify as a second pro team- the Monarchs. With them factored in, how much do the metrics slide?
If Levin is the owner of seattle’s NHL team then they would be playing in the key.
Bennett also banned players from doing any local media requests, interviews, radio spots, etc.
To cfox…
Seattle attendance in the last 2 years (under Bennett, our worst ever) averaged 14,634, while the Kings last 5 years is around 13,500. So SAC has no advantage there. Also your stats leave out our best years.
I appreciate you being civil. But you should know something about the NBA… They hooked up Schultz with Bennett with full knowledge the team would be ripped away. Then when we had two legit lawsuits that would have kept the team here, Stern promised if we dropped the suits and got an arena plan, we’d get the next available team.
I can break it to you right now that Stern told KJ and Burkle that this team is gone and to get ready for the next one by getting a solid arena plan. Burkle is already on that. KJ is too, if you can get past the bravado about being crystal clear and all.
To everyone else…
I think it’s good for SAC fans to come here and get our perspective because it may lower their expectations, and take some of the sting out of The Announcement. I think we should welcome them, refute their talking points, and reset their optimism level- for all of our sakes.
Wow, did someone get paid to make that thing?
Just out of curiosity, any rhyme or reason to getting dumped into moderation?
I concur.
As for comparing the two fan bases I don’t have an issue with people in Sac wanting to belittle Seattle. In the end it doesn’t matter and it shows more in the confidence of our leaders when they just shrug it off.
Chris Daniels
I heard from a connected person today, that yes, #NBAKings relocation fee to Seattle would be -at or close to- $75 MILLION….
This is excellent news. And no, I’m not being sarcastic.
I agree.
Is it? What if that’s more than double what Hansen and his group were expecting?
Is there a dollar figure at which they decide it doesn’t make economic sense to go forward, at least in this case? I’m not getting worried, but I’m just honestly not sure how to read this.
I guess it can be taken as good news if we don’t hear anything all the way up until April, as that would signal they’re willing to pay it, and that’s an amount the NBA won’t refuse, but right here, right now, I’m not so sure.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
That $75M would raise standards. NBA could argue it’s deterrent to move franchises but owners would pocket the $ & have incentive to approve
Sigh. That seems to me like another insult from the NBA after they only charged Bennett $30 million to aid in his getaway with the Sonics.
Sometimes I wonder why we should want back in with these guys who treated us like crap and continue to do so.
I highly doubt they were expecting it to be the same as the fee from when the Sonics moved to OKC.
With franchise values going up, inflation, and the determination of the group, it was kind of obvious that the fee would be higher than $30 million.
There’s our whale
This relocation fee report reminds me of when the city council wrote that letter to Hansen asking for more private contribution. It ticked us off, but it meant that there was a price that would get the job done.
I can understand where the NBA is coming from on setting a high relocation fee. The OKC relocation is not - in the eyes of the NBA - a directly comparable situation. In the eyes of the NBA owners, Clay Bennet put forth his “good faith best efforts” to keep the team in Seattle, while incurring large annual losses. In turn, he was allowed to move the team from Seattle for a relatively small relocation fee. Chris Hansen is wanting to buy and move the Kings, without trying to workout a long-term in Sacramento. The NBA is simply trying to deliniate between an owner who guys and moves a team, vs. buying, trying to work-out a deal in the existing city, before moving the team.
Hopefully that’s what it means.
Gotta love the NBA, eh?
“It’s not going to come down to economics.”
“That’ll be $75 million please…..”
$1.5 mm more reasons for each owner to vote to approve the sale.
and if you are a conspiracy theorist…………it could be a legal bribe. How much in relocation money do I need to pay to get this done? wink wink
Love Softy’s candor.
Dave Softy Mahler @Softykjr
Kings fans should B doing everything they can to save their team. Lying, bashing us, making crap up. All of it. I would to. But it wont help
Dave Softy Mahler @Softykjr
If I were in Sacramento and trying to save my team would I lie, twist the #’s and misrepresent the facts to my benefit? Hell yes
Get off the roller coaster
Deep inside is the un-jaded sports fan who doesn’t realize business comes first who feels for these innocent Sac fans about to have their heartbroken…but as soon as I start reading their posts that little sliver of compassion is swallowed up by my desire to prove them wrong. It’s sad, but true.
Couldn’t agree more with Softy. I’d willfully like to try and turn the media spin positive. It’s the only “shot” they have and it’s a full-court, fade-away shot with a hand in the face. Do what you gotta do.
Brian has a new thread up.
It’s the only play they have. They have to prove why the NBA WON’T work in Seattle.
Considering the history, they’ve seriously got their work cut out for them.
man it is crazy how many times a team almost moved to tampa and how little that area supports the team they have. the rays have literally no margin of error because of how horribly small market they are.
Call Ripley. He won’t believe this. I just read an article written by Thiel that didn’t piss me off.