Ever since the NBA instituted the luxury tax in the 2002/03 season, there have been only seven teams that have never paid the tax. With how recklessly the NBA spends money and how some of the teams on that list spend, you’d expect at some point in time they would have paid the luxury tax.
The Wizards have never paid the luxury tax despite the ungodly amount of money they paid to Gilbert Arenas. His knees would never live up to that contract. Said contract became so insane that it could only be traded for Rashard Lewis’ equally terrible contract-and we know how that story played out for both guys.
Charlotte is another team that hasn’t paid the luxury tax. Chicago hasn’t paid yet either, but that’s going to change come the end of this season. You can lump in Golden State and the Clippers in the same boat. New Orleans has never paid the tax either (well, with how cheap/broke George Shinn is. it really shouldn’t come as a surprise).
The last team to have never paid the luxury tax used to play in our great city. Despite having more than enough money it wasn’t part of Howard’s plan to over pay for talent, but rather to find the best talent for the best value. He was able to keep Ray Allen on a modest contract for his talent level (and the last big contract in the middle of Ray’s prime).
Celtics, Nets, Warriors, Lakers and Knicks are going to be paying the luxury tax this coming year. The Lakers are about to pay into the tax this year to the tune of $85M.
That’s more than any current team in the NBA pays in player payroll!
Not sure how the luxury tax actually works? Here’s a chart I picked up from CBA Guru, Larry Coon:
|
Team salary above tax level |
Non-repeater |
Repeater |
|||
|
Lower |
Upper |
Tax rate |
Incremental maximum |
Tax rate |
Incremental maximum |
| $0 | $4,999,999 | $1.50 | $7.5 million | $2.50 | $12.5 million |
| $5,000,000 | $9,999,999 | $1.75 | $8.75 million | $2.75 | $13.75 million |
| $10,000,000 | $14,999,999 | $2.50 | $12.5 million | $3.50 | $17.5 million |
| $15,000,000 | $19,999,999 | $3.25 | $16.25 million | $4.25 | $21.25 million |
| $20,000,000 | N/A | $3.75, and increasing $.50 for each additional $5 million. |
N/A | $4.75, and increasing $.50 for each additional $5 million. |
N/A |
A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level in 2011-12 pays a tax of $12 million.For example:
- A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level in 2013-14 pays a tax of $21.25 million (the incremental maximum of $7.5 million for $0 to $4,999,999, plus the incremental maximum of $8.75 million for $5 million to $9,999,999, plus $2 million times the incremental rate of $2.50 for $10 million to $14,999,999).
- A team with a team salary $4 million over the tax level in 2015-16 pays a tax of $10 million ($4 million times the repeater rate of $2.50 for $0 to $4,999,999) if they also were taxpayers in three of the previous four seasons, or pays a tax of $6 million ($4 million times the non-repeater rate of $1.50 for $0 to $4,999,999) if they were not taxpayers in at least three of the previous four seasons.
It might be the cheap skate in me, but I don’t think going over the salary cap is worth paying a potential 475% tax on it. I also am not part of an ownership group that is worth upwards of $25 billion.
The Lakers, Celtics and Knicks really do not care about that though. They have more than enough coming in from their profits and television contracts.
The Lakers definitely don’t care about that $85M in tax. They’re going to profit from $150M to $200M on ticket sales, merchandise, etc. and another huge sum of money from their television contract. If they wanted to add Durant and LeBron to their current team and pay them max plus contracts they could and would still make over $100M in profit.
Now, look at the cap-dumping trade that Memphis did this week. They rid themselves of three guys on rookie contracts (Selby, Ellington and Speights) to the Cleveland Cavaliers. In return, they received Jon Leuer and his very affordable contract that comes in just a shade under $500,000.
Memphis can now avoid the tax, Cleveland adds very cheap, young guys to their roster full of… well cheap, young guys.
Guaranteed this is not the only time you are going to see a couple of small market teams do a salary dump trade before the trade deadline on February 21st.
How does this relate to the Sonics?
Seattle has really never been able to outbid other teams for free agent players or coaches. It was how we lost Nate McMillan to the Blazers. We were able to, however, outbid ourselves and pull in the forever-unforgettable Jim McIlvaine contract. To me that’s all he was. He was barely worth the ink that he signed his contract with.
Fun facts to impress all your friends later with:
- Jim McIlvaine’s career high as a Sonic was 12 points. He only scored in double digits four times in 151 games with the Sonics.
- He only had three double-digit rebounding games and he did only did the bare minimum to get there.
- Miraculously he managed to take one those four double-digit scoring games and combine that with one of his three double-digit rebounding games to form his only double-double as a Sonic on November, 16 1997. The Sonics beat the Bucks that night 119-99, eight different players scored in double figures and David Wingate shot 50% from the field.
Now back to our new ownership group. Sources close to me have said that Hansen and Ballmer are not going to worry about the luxury tax. Their main goal is to create an elite franchise from the ground up and win multiple championships.
Hansen and Ballmer did not stumble into their massive amounts of wealth. They worked hard, they worked smart and they knew when to take a risk. They surrounded themselves with people who they knew were like them and that would succeed.
The rumors are spinning that Phil Jackson is likely to become team president and Hansen/Ballmer are going to steal RC Buford from the San Antonio Spurs. Jackson and Buford both either played, coached or presided over 17 NBA championships.
Now that would be an extremely solid foundation in which to start the 2.0 organization in! (We can delve into how to rebuild the organization at a later date).
Just relish in the fact that if we wanted to we could buy championships like the Lakers and Yankees. We’ve grown up and been programmed to despise teams like the Lakers and Yankees. It was mostly envy though. How much would you trade to have had the Sonics or Mariners in a position in which they could have won a combined 45 titles?
A lot of this is going to depend on how profitable the team will be and how lucrative the television contract is, amongst other financial factors. But how sweet would it be to completely not care about the salary cap and luxury tax and outbid the Thunder for Kevin Durant in 2015?
The more I think of it, the BOG will probably decide the sale all-star week, or maybe even before that. it will take time for Chris to take control of the team, set things up, finalize the key getting ready, etc. plus they have to fill out the paperwork for relocation. the relo deadline is march 1st, if he takes control of the team much later than ASG, it may not be enough time to get control of the team and file the relo paperwork. I heard BOG was voting on the relocation April 1st.
I think Aaron Levine tweeted that the BOG was voting on the move April 1st.
Relo on 4/1, I wonder when they vote on sale?
In any event, should be before that absurd bankruptcy auction (barring an injunction)
Press conference now
http://www.news10.net/video/liveonline/default.aspx
No comment on ROFR.
KJ on air now. once again no new news. this is ridiculous.
losers use words like “competitive and fair”
The Mariners use the words “competitive and fair” quite often.
KJ talked to Stern for about a minute. Told you so.
KJ: Hey Dave, my man, I’m holding another presser today. Got anything new for me?
Stern: Yeah, don’t ever, ever, ever call me “Dave”. You are dead to me.
*hangs up phone*
Is he going to have a press conference everyday where he basically has nothing to say?
He basically sidesteps the important questions because he doesnt have an answer or doesnt know. Then says they are going to put together a “competitive and fair” bid.
And I get it. He doesnt have the equity partners in place so until that happens it really is pretty moot. But what is their strategy here?
I also like how he put the ROFR on the current minority owners.
I wonder if KJ asked Stern, “Can you please rig this for me against Seattle like you did in Game 7 in 1993?”
(I’m sorry. I just figured someone had to work a reference to that into this situation.)
i just laughed and cried a little bit. haha
Well that was delightfully pointless. He is fighting an avalance with a fly swatter if that is the best they can do.
I tuned in about 3:05. Nothing there. What’s the deal? Are they trying to get hits on the presser website to raise capital to keep the team?
At this point kj is just toying with kings fans. getting your hopes up for a press conference with nothing to report. that would suck
I was expecting an announcment on the ROFRcopter. They got Airwolf!
Apparently, the press conference started early. What did I miss?
apparently nothing
It sounds like absolutely nothing.
Just Airwolf dude.
A Little more on the SoDo Arena.
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2013/01/24/latest-images-of-sonics-arena-posted.html?ed=2013-01-24&s=article_du
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
RT @dakasler: Mayor says #NBAKings ltd partners’ are “mucking it up a little bit” for Seattle, they’re on separate track from his effort
You mean they are doing absolutely nothing to Seattle?
There’s a surprise. :-)
At tomorrows presser I fully expect KJ to do a little soft-shoe like Johnny Carson when was bombing. Cue the music…
^when he was bombing.
“Good afternoon, people of Sacramento! Yesterday I held a press conference to announce I just saved a ton of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.
Today’s announcement: Commissioner David Stern and myself will be appearing in a series of Old Spice deodorant ads beginning during All-Star Weekend. Y’all tune in. Aiight now I gotta roll.”
And i stayed at a holiday inn last night
And my feet are gellin’
You think the other people would have told kj about the frof if it was true since apparently they want to keep the team there (or at least speculated). I think that angle may be false as well. He should just stop these
Ted Gaines @TedGaines
Feeling more encouraged than ever about our chances of keeping #NBAKings after meeting w/ @KJ_MayorJohnson, Sen Steinberg and local ldrs.
He’s a CA state senator. Good grief.
At Friday’s presser KJ will proclaim: I don’t know about you but I’m out of here to go to Sleep Train to see the team that got away play the team that got away.
He said the minority owners aren’t part of his effort. They would be the best assets to work with
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
The #NBA team of lawyers have been studying transaction docs for weeks, so I’d be surprised if the issue hadn’t come up before.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Q is whether he was (allegedly) not given ROFR because share is in bankruptcy protection. Does that matter? Would love legal feedback. #NBA
Good question if i was minority owner of a team and i file for bankruptcy do i even have the right to claim a ROFR.
I guess you’d probably have the right, so long as you had the money to do it yourself instead.
But you can’t because you’re bankrupt.
How hard would the BOG laugh if they had an alternate offer submitted that was headed by a bankrupt!
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
RT @kcrabienick: Lots of support from regional leaders for #NBAKings . But so far no offers from beyond city to help pay for arena.
Who broke the news about ROFR is telling. A bankrupcy trustee is not making this proclaimation because he wants the bankrupcy estate to make a bid. He’s trying to pry the Hansen group to pay more cash for the 7% share the trustee owns. It’s not a viable threat to the purchase. If the other 28% ownership stake had any interest in exercising their rights, they would have been public about it.
This.
Does a new buyer have a ROFR if there is a sales agreement in place before the shares even go to auction? Seems like you couldn’t invoke it if you are late to the party. I’m not a lawyer but seems silly someone could do that
To me the 7% thing is nonsense. I’d be SHOCKED if the ROFR were transferable.
The only avenue is Burkle or someone teaming with an EXISTING minority partner to match the Hansen offer. Barring that, the “major” news today is all for naught.
Flabbergasting…Completely and utterly perplexing. No idea what they are doing.
I like Daniels tweet above. Let me tell you that if “We have tons of local enthusiasm and all kinds of ideas about how to get this done. The only thing we are missing is some way to pay for it.” was effective then professional sports teams would never move.
Straws, they are grasping at them.
Doesn’t this remind us of the seattle case back in 08. Lots of local leader support but nothing on how to pay for the arena.
We can’t build it with only good intentions?
@ChrisDaniels5: Hmm. RT @rocandmanuch: RT @cmorgancbsfoxaz Not much news on Jamison’s bid to buy #Coyotes w/1 week left until deadline: http://t.co/t0ctcIVe
Can’t forget this. Been a few reports on this recently
I repeat
From a message board on the Bee
“34 years of accounting and M&A mergers. Real “whales” like Burkle, Hansen, Ballmer never do business this way.”
We have an unfair advantage in this whole situation. Since we have already been through this we can see the holes very clearly. We can see the problems with their ideas that they arent even considering.
I think they are just trying to keep the faith and be as positive as you can. Easy to do when you dont have the experience. Tunnel vision.
we also have the hardest part already taken care off an arena plan.
1. They think they can bid less and get the team and somehow the NBA will make that happen. But…..its not up to the NBA……and their examples of where this has happened are because the owner, key word OWNER, wont sell to buyers looking to move.
2. They seem to think the NBA really cares. Maybe they get that from the commercials. They seem to think “no way would they move a team we’ve been here 28 years”. It happened to us. We had 41 years.
It just seems like they are not taking into account the stone cold facts.
I’ll post it again from what i posted a above in case people missed it.
if i was minority owner of a team and i file for bankruptcy do i even have the right to claim a ROFR.
art thiel on KJR. this guy is such a turd.
What is he saying now?
Yes he is
art thiel is on KJR right now claiming that the only reason the maloofs signed the agreement to sell to hansen was to get sacramento reengaged and to pay more. why does anyone listen to this guy?
What an idoit. We have a signed bidding agreement. Maloofs can’t back off.
this is the same guy who 5 or 6 months ago floated some ridiculous scenario about having sonics 2.0 play in vancouver while the new arena was being built.
Gee Art, that’s a funny way of re-engaging one’s fan base.
“OK after ten years of asking for a new arena, screw you guys! I’m going to sell the team to Seattle! Oh snap, I was just kidding.”
THIS!
Because that worked so well two years ago, didn’t it!
“Ok, after eight years of asking for a new arena, screw you guys! I’m going to move the team to Anaheim! Oh snap, I was just kidding.”
I have deja vu!
pretty sure he was also claiming it was still going to take YEARS before we got a team back even when the city council approved the arena financing. and was saying how the NBA could never leave the one show town like sacramento. Fart Thiele is full of donkey crap.
Is Art Thiel for real? The only reason the Maloofs signed the agreement was to get Sacramento to pay more? Is this real life? Hey Art, how about you sign a contract to buy my house. I know this guy who will be mad and give me more money than you.
Maloofs can go asking for someone else i’ll sell you kings for more than 525m thats called breach of contract.
seriously. get this hack off the air.
He doesn’t get it! What a fool!
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
RT @sacbee_news: Kings minority owner says Oracle’s Larry Ellison plans to meet w/ Mayor Johnson to discuss team’s fate http://sacb.ee/WSgxCD
Well…… Shit
Remember its coming from Sac Bee.
Second of all Ellison always intended to buy a team and move them to San Jose.
That is actually interesting, carries more weight than anything Thiel has to say.
It’s not interesting at all. If the league wanted Larry Ellison in, he’d have been in years ago. If the BOG can’t muster 8 no votes this is a done deal. KJ is better served trying to find 8 no votes, if they’re there. Finding other buyers is immaterial at this point.
Xteve,
Exactly. I don’t see how BOG will vote no if KJ has absolutely nothing to show the NBA especially when it comes to local group to buy the kings.
BOG will vote yes to approve sale to Hansen just to get the maloofs out. But if there is no local group with the $$$ to match or beat Hansen with an actual arena plan then how does he expect to convince BOG to vote no on sale to Hansen.
Plus if they wanted to keep the team in Sacramento Larry Ellison is the LAST guy they should be talking to …
HA! Team’s fate?? As if KJ owns them? The Kings are a privately owned business practically. The Maloofs owned them, and sold them to Hansen. It is a done deal. They could have a billion dollars to offer but a BINDING AGREEMENT has already been DONE. There is NO WAY they can do anything themselves.
Now, had they done this last month, year? Then yes, maybe they could have stayed. Come on guys, Hansen and Seattle CC are already readying the Key. He would NOT and I repeat, CHRIS HANSEN WOULD NOT have released his own statement about this WITHOUT being 100% sure it was going to be a done deal.
Yyyup
It is starting to sound like they are basing their plan on the bankruptcy and ROFR.
If any of that is possible then it would make sense for Sac to try and delay any votes on the sale. If the vote happens before the auction then any potential ROFR would probably be moot.
Just throwing thoughts out.
Auction of the 7% is moot point.
Seems to back up the earlier contention that Lukenbill et al planned to move the Kings from KC to Sac from the very beginning of their team ownership despite the heated denials.
“It is important the community knows we are making the effort to keep the team in town,” Cook said. “Gregg Lukenbill, Joe Benvenuti and I spent years of hard work bringing the team to Sacramento, and we are not going to let it leave Sacramento without a fight.”
Article doesn’t say a meeting is actually planned. This is just rumor and nothing else.
True. Either way I am done worrying about Sacramento’s “efforts and competitiveness”. Let rumors swirl all they want. People in Sactown are desperate for the slightest sign of them staying. The fact is this, the nba began reviewing Hansen and Co.’s financial record yesterday. The sale should be approved unanimously by the All-Star break. The RELOCATION will be held off until April.
Behold, the smell of panic.
We have no whales other than Larry.
And Larry wants to move the team too. Maybe I can at least talk him into a stay of execution while I’m still in office.
Is it April 1st yet?
Thiel is such an idoit. The NBA won’t approve the sale only reject the sale.
Theil needs to take a class in contract LAW. Maloofs can NOT go ask for more money after they signed the binding agreement. Does he ever heard of breach of contract?
hahaha now thiel is saying that nba might approval sale to hansen but not the move to seattle.
thiel is seriously the worst guest host ever, i typically immediately change the channel as soon as i hear his voice.
Who’s worse? Thiel or Westneat?
Oops not westneat, I meant all the losers on the Times Ed board.
60-40? Good god Thiel shut the hell up.
Does he even know what I-91 even is? Seattle voters did not tell them to drop dead.
he just said 60/40 that the deal gets done and the sonics are back next year. this guy is such a moron!
Lawsuit for what? What cause does the Sac have for a lawsuit?
I switched the radio when I heard he was coming on. The guy is always such a wet blanket.
Let bygones be bygones, and morons………………rot in a failing career of writing.
Don’t forget guys, this was only 3 days ago, and the only facts we know. So as of now the team is coming here this fall.
An Announcement
{alt}
Chris Hansen
We are happy to announce that we have entered into a binding agreement with the Maloofs to purchase a controlling interest in the Sacramento Kings NBA franchise. The sale is obviously subject to approval by the NBA Board of Governors, and we look forward to working with the League in the coming months to consummate the transaction.
While we are not at liberty to discuss the terms of the transaction or our plans for the franchise given the confidential nature of the agreement and NBA regulations regarding public comments during a pending transaction, we would just like to extend our sincerest compliments and gratitude toward the Maloof family. Our negotiations with the family were handled with the utmost honor and professionalism and we hope to continue their legacy and be great stewards of this NBA franchise in the coming years and decades.
— Chris Hansen
“Why didn’t Mayor Johnson see a sale coming?”
http://gameto100.com/?p=1526
For the record, though I disagree with what Art is saying, I think he is terrific and an outstanding columnist. He isn’t our yes man. He is saying what he thinks and recommending cautious optimism.
Smart people can disagree with each other.
I really disagree with Art as well. Especially on the PSA If you have a bidding signed document then you can’t go out to other people trying to get more money.
yeah hes saying what he thinks and thats the problem. his columns and radio appearances are just stream of consciousness worst case scenario rants. every positive step we’ve taken has been immediately followed by an art thiel turd fest. its like he secretly doesnt want the team back. i dont get him.
I also disagree on his opinion of I-91 it was never meant to be NO to public funding at all.
Not listening to talking heads, Twitter and the lame rumor circuit has made this Sonics fan a happier man this week. Roller coaster? What roller coaster?
Thiel is correct in that the sale could be allowed to Hansen, and the relocation rejected. I doubt that would happen; but who knows?
The real concern is Ellison. Ellison was turned down on a bid before; but so was Ballmer. There is a lot of talk that Ballmer has more money than anybody; but Ellison has three times the money of Ballmer.
I have not seen the contracts, so I do not know if there is a first right of refusal for minority partners in the Kings. If there is, then that will be a problem, maybe (maybe, like everything else to do with this), especially if Ellison partners with the minority owners.
Ellison, and the California State politicians, are the roadblocks.
Anyway, no one knows what will happen, including Hansen.
if NBA wanted Ellison he would be an owner already by now.
What has California state politicians have anything to do with it.
Leverage. California politicians acting in a concerted way have leverage with the NBA, because there are 4 NBA teams in California. California politicians acting in a concerted way have leverage with Hansen (who lives in, and does business with California), and Ballmer (Microsoft does business with California, and has operations in California).
California is one of the largest economies in the world. The California economy dwarfs the Washington State economy.
California politicians getting a bee in their bonnet, and attempting to stop any relocation (or even sale) would be a problem for this deal.
Leverage is having a purchase agreement and a viable arena plan, in a superior market.
Our local politicians have already delivered on a binding agreement.
I don’t think there’s a politician outside of Sacramento that gives a damn about any of this.
We might think there is a binding agreement for an arena; but what matters is what the BOG thinks.
The contract for the Seattle arena is not signed, there are lawsuits, and there is controversy. The BOG may not think that there is a guaranteed arena deal in Seattle as of yet.
There are a lot of loose ends with the Seattle arena deal. Those ends will not be tied up before the BOG meeting.
So, it is not unreasonable to think that the BOG does not consider the Seattle arena deal to be solid, yet.
I can not read minds, so like I said, this is all conjecture. Just like most of the things said about this Sacramento sale.
traven,
We had a lawsuit against Bennett for breach of contract and the NBA approved relocation to OKC anyways,
Suppose this CA state senator does start mucking around with Microsoft contracts, and says that they’re going to divert money intended for those contracts to somewhere else.
What’s keeping Microsoft (a major employer) from saying “operating at (for sake of argument) Stockton is no longer profitable for us, we’re going to pull up stakes in Stockton?”
Those Microsoft “dealings” that Sternberg is threatening means California jobs; those jobs have a much bigger, more direct impact on Californians than any basketball team does.
Do you really think he would risk screwing up jobs (not just in Stockton but all over California) for the sake of a basketball team?
All Sternberg is doing is grandstanding. He and the California government are not going to risk their constituents’ jobs (and their own) for a basketball team.
The same could be said of Ballmer.
No, it couldn’t. David Stern went out of his way several times to compliment Steve Ballmer and how the NBA would welcome an owner like him.
The same could be said of Ballmer. I do not think that the NBA just decides that they dislike some billionaire and blacklists them.
Theil is a wet blanket, and his blanket has a Mariners logo on it.
What a load of bullshit.
The sale is a presentation that includes the future viability of the franchise under Hansen’s ownership.
I’m reasonably confident that Hansen is not going to present a PSA scenario where he owns the team and it stays in Sacramento.
Ellison is a non-factor.
traven,
Why the hell would the NBA accept the sale but reject the reloc. That will never happen. They’ll might as well reject the sale.
wojo of yahoo sports said relocation will get approved. It is question if sale will get approved.
Do you have a link for that. It doesn’t make sense.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-sources-kings-to-play-in-seattle-next-season-060233410.html
I’ll rephrase it Its been reported by wojo odf yahoo sports. That the relocation commitee will approve the relocation of the Kings to Seattle.
The question remains is will NBA approve the sale of the Kings.
Hansen can always say “Sacramento and the Kings are synonymous.” then buy the team and give KJ one year to build a $750 mill 90% publicly financed arena. In the unlikely event the tax payers and or council agree, he could always “sweet flip” the team to Ellison.
That is not going to happen.
Of course not. I’m obv being ridiculous
Like I said, I doubt it would happen; but here goes. The BOG might not reject the sale, because they like that it has increased the value of all NBA franchises, and because they do not want the NBA to get in the habit of rejecting sales. The BOG are owners of franchises themselves.
The BOG might reject the relocation because they wish the team to stay in Sacramento, are pressured by California politicians, or are not happy with the up-in-the-air Seattle arena proposal. Or maybe they really do hate Seattle.
Like I said I doubt this would happen; but who knows?
Up in the air Seattle arena proposal?
Still not approval of the Seattle Arena proposal, so it is still up-in-the-air.
Uh, actually it is approved. It’s simply waiting for the completion of the EIS.
They won’t reject the relocation. They would reject the sale not relocation if they wanted the team to stay but that is its self a whole differnet issue. What if they reject Hansen’s sale and Maloofs decide not to sell locally then what? NBA gets a huge black eye and PR nightmare and still have to deal with the Maloofs.
If NBA approves Sale to Hansen the team is coming to Seattle.
Then how would the BOG feel about Sacramento’s nonexistent arena proposal? Sure, nobody knows with 100% certainty what’s going to happen, but that’s not really a point. We also can’t say with complete certainty that the world won’t end tomorrow.
Nevermind non existance local ownership group that has the $$$ to match the offer and fund an arena.
You really think the NBA would send that message to desirable prospective future owners? Come buy a team…and we’ll promptly make you very sorry you did!
There is zero chance they approve a sale and not relocation.
There is little chance they don’t approve the sale.
Who knows what is going on in private? None of us do. Any possibility is possible. Is it doubtful that relocation would not be approved. Sure. Is it possible relocation would not be approved, yes.
… Art?
So, making up illogical scenarios is the thing to do, yep, lets do that.
Well theoretically the invaders from the planet Zorgatron might fly in and put this whole thing to bed with their death ray, should we talk about that, too?
Love the “who knows what is going on” argument…basically asking someone to prove a negative. You Seattle Times commenters love that one…
Well isn’t that what we learned from all the tweets, and false rumors over the passed couple weeks? No body knows what is going on in private with the principle individuals involved.
We don’t know, so who knows? I guess the principles, but that is it. I was not attempting to defend Thiels statements. But Thiels statements are possible.
Anyway, in most cases “who knows” is lame; but in the case of this Sacramento deal; that is all that has been shown with the non-stop rumors swirling around it. Who knows what is going to happen, or what is going on with the Kings?
What does logic have to do with the past actions of the NBA. Logically the Ballmer bid for the SuperSonics should have been allowed. The team should logically still be in Seattle.
Bennett has the right as any other owner in the NBA to not sell the team.
Plus do not blame Bennett for it was Schultz own fault for selling the team to Bennett.
Schultz should have attempted to find local ownership before selling the team to an outside state person.
Don’t expect me to defend the scumbag Bennet, and I am suprised to see anybody in Seattle defending Bennet.
Tavern,
What bennet did was unethical but he is stilll the owner of the franchise thus doesn’t have to sell it just cause someone that wanted to buy it. He has the right to do what ever with the franchise.
Its just like Maloofs Sac Kings fans hate them but its within their right to sell the team and to who ever they want.
Logically this is a fallible argument. The Sonics were already Bennett’s when Ballmer made his bid. Bennett had every right to reject his offer.
If the Ballmer bid had been made while Bennett and Schultz were in the middle of executing a PSA…nothing would have changed.
If they reject relocation then the value of the team, and the offer, would be far less in total value than $525 million.
The purchase sale price depends on the mobility of that franchise.
This accept the sale and reject relocation fails to take into account reality.
That is interesting. So, with the new Forbes valuations, would the Kings not being moved lower the value? Would it then lower the valuations of the other teams?
I agree, that it is unlikely that relocation would not be approved; and stated that from the start; but the NBA has done crazy things (not taking Ballmers offer for the SuperSonics). I do not know how they think.
Why would you turn down Ballmer (I believe Hansen has been reported to have been involved with that effort), or Ellison (as has happened)? These two would both be good owners. Crazy things happen.
If NBA wanted Ellison as NBA owners he would been an owner by now. Ellison has attempted may times to buy a team only reason why he is not an owner now is that he intentions were to buy a team and move them to San Jose.
The Kings value is based on their mobility.
The Bobcats lack of value is based on their crappy market and inability to move.
If the Bobcats lease were scheduled to end next year their value would be about $525 million dollars.
Location, location, location.
You keep bringing up Ballmer as if he actually bid for the team, which is obviously not true. He never got the chance to because Olympia rejected the public portion of his arena proposal.
Mike,
wouldn’t approving Sale but rejecting relocation open the league for anti-trust since Seattle group would be NBA owners.
I really do not think the NBA is that concerned with anti-trust lawsuits. I think the NBA has a defense team specializing in anti-trust suits on the shelf. I would bet the NBA has been ready for such suits for decades; and I bet that the NBA has done more research on anti-trust suits than just about anyone.
The franchise owner, Maloof or Hansen, would have the same legal rights.
I agree. I figure Forbes values the Kings at 525 million because that is the reported amount a purchaser values the Kings. I also figure that the increase in value of the Kings led to increased valuations of all of the other franchises.
So, do you think the franchise values will lower after a Kings sale?
No, franchise values are only going to go up in anticipation of the full CBA making it possible for teams in viable arenas and markets to at least break even.
The model of only making money on resale has been altered.
No, much more would have to happen aside from completion of the Environmental Review before any construction could start. You are incorrect brettb3. There is not final approval of the arena by either the Seattle City Council, or the King County Council.
One thing, you were incorrect, that is no big deal; but what is up with this use of words like “Uh”, or “Umm”. I really don’t get why anyone would write those words. I can understand when speaking, those words get used to buy time, or whatever; but in writing they are pointless, and make the person using them look foolish, especially when the person is also incorrect, like you.
Art Thiel is just a total joke doesn’t he know that they reach a binding agreement where no one is allowed to match Hansen’s and Ballmer’s offer? I also remember a few years ago he said that after Nickel’s lost the primary that the loss of the Sonics had nothing to do with losing the primary which is balony! Everything I hear from him is nothing but crap and that’s why I don’t read his websites nor at that time when the Seattle P-I was running didn’t buy their newspaper! I don’t believe one word he said what that debate with Elise where she had more valid points about the binding agreement and how far we are compared to Sacramento.
Watching the Celts vs Knicks game and Steve Kerr just said that the Sonics piped in noise during the finals…. WTF is he thinking?
Wasn’t he busy playing at the time? What would he know?
Many who think they are the smartest in the room offer contrary opinions on purpose.
ROFRCopter, one of the best terms to come out of this rollercoaster! Wheee!!
Something to take our mind off of all of this
Pretty good discussion going on at realgm on how to rebuild the kings:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1227709
Good to see the realgm general board hasn’t changed much since 2007.
Hansen would not go into this much work, trouble, and a $30 million deposit only to have the BOG not be sure of the arena. The “lawsuits” are universally known as jokes, anyone can file a lawsuit. Even Tim Burgess said that if need be they will exempt it from I-91 which makes it impossible for this arena to be stopped.
On Ellison. He wasn’t turned down by the league for the Warriors. He was turned down by the owner that was selling the team. Which is a step Hansen is already past.
If KJ gets a whale and somehow convinces the BOG to vote no, he still has to convince the Maloofs to take their offer. And with another $30 million in their pockets they could just hold out for another chance at relocation elsewhere.
I know I’m just repeating what we already know but damn was it frustrating not to have them take calls whole Art was on the air. I spent the whole time screaming to myself that I want examples. Art, give examples of a binding agreement being submitted to the NBA for a vote that was used to get more money from a separate group.
Regarding Ellison, the only different between now and his previous attempts at buying a team is that there is a binding sales agreement.
He can’t negotiate with the maloofs. Never-mind i think its been reported that he did not want to offer what Hansen was offering.
LOL…well regarding the actual article that was written….teams DO NOT buy championships in the NBA…they get the best players. Name one team that bought a championship in the NBA..
Weellll the Heat had a pretty good year last year.
They have spent a lot of money but they are only fourth this year and were even less the previous years. Teams like New York, Portland and even Dallas tried to figure out a way to get over the cap and bring in more talent and realized that it is near impossible. Mark Cuban thinks that with the restrictive luxury tax that is coming in the new CBA that is even LESS likely that teams will do what the article states.
This is because the new CBA makes it so that even if you are over the cap you don’t get a mid level exception (which is always a terrible contract) some years.
I gathered some quotes from Adrian Woj’s report to help you guys realize that this is indeed a done deal. More talk about team improvement please and less about politics of deals.
“The relocation committee has been briefed several times on the sale process to the Hansen-Ballmer group, sources said, and fully support the franchise moving to Seattle for next season.
The relocation committee is chaired by Oklahoma City Thunder owner Clay Bennett, and includes Washington’s Ted Leonsis, Minnesota’s Glen Taylor, Utah’s Greg Miller, Miami’s Mickey Arison, Indiana’s Herb Simon and San Antonio’s Peter Holt. Bennett moved the Sonics from Seattle to Oklahoma City in 2008.
The NBA’s Board of Governors support this ownership group, want a team back in the Seattle market and will approve the sale at the next league meeting, sources said. ”
And regarding the minority owners ROFR (lol rofrcopter)…..12 percent of Hansen’s 65 is FROM a minority owner. This implies that they already have had their chances and cannot stop the deal.
“While NBA commissioner David Stern did work dutifully to find a way to keep the Kings in Sacramento for several years, the league was pushing the Maloof family to sell their 53 percent ownership share, and wanted badly for them to exit the league as owners, sources said. The Seattle contingent is purchasing the Maloofs’ portion of the franchise and a 12 percent share from minority owner Bob Hernreich.”
DONE
So………uhhh, Ray and Rashard are free agents this summer. Reunion anyone? Just for old time’s sake?
Too be honest I just want to see them trade whatever they can for draft picks. Get them ready to be good for when the new arena opens. Especially with all the picks over the years that the team has already given away.
So I’d be ok with some old Sonics if they don’t mind being on a young and not very good team.
We all need a little more Andy Sesay in our lives.
How dare autocorrect try to besmirch the name of the great ANSU Sesay!?
you’ ‘ll pay dearly for this treachery, autocorrect.
As for this silly, silly, silly, silly, silly (seriously if I could write this 100xs it still would be an understandment) notion of the concept that the BOG would approve the sale to Hansen and block the move.
That will NEVER (this is not an understatement) happen. The owners would never block their future mobility and if they did (as we’ve discussed) Hansen would actually have a legal case to allow him to make his move (see: Al Davis). The BOG might reject Hansen as an owner. There is literally a 0% chance they would block a relocation.
Please stop wasting time with this dicsussion. There is 1000xs more of a chance that the league expands compared to blocking a move.
Interesting thought…what if the Maloofs just petitioned to move to Seattle prior to the sale with Hansen being complete. As people have noted…the Maloofs are not required to sell to the Sacramento people.
Myk,
Per Seattle arena MOU agreement Maloofs can not have the controlling share of the team and move them to Seattle.
The MOU could be changed. But do you really want a team owned by the Maloofs?
The Maloofs would still sell the team to Hansen…just after the relocate
I don’t know if anything like that has ever happened before. Interesting.
I wouldn’t start stressing about deadlines, though. The league has shown plenary of willingness to grant extensions in the past.
From above (because I got in late, and everyone missed it, most likely)…
On KJ meeting with Ellison again:
This is the smell of fear and panic in the air.
If KJ has other whales lined up, why is he even bothering meeting again with a guy who wants a team in San Jose?
This tells me two things:
- KJ doesn’t have any other home-run whales lined up, given he’s gone back to Ellison.
- He thinks he’s a chance of convincing Ellison to keep the Kings in Sacto at least while he’s still mayor (and then relocate after that).
In short, he’s trying to deal with the devil to try and keep the Kings from leaving under his watch. Shame it’s still too late.
First of all why would the NBA want a team in San Jose when Golden State warriors are planning to move to SF.
Second of all if Kings are going to move why would NBA pick San Jose over Seattle.
The problem in general is the idea that the NBA picks these things. The owners react to what they are asked to vote on.
“If KJ has other whales lined up, why is he even bothering meeting again with a guy who wants a team in San Jose?”
To say nothing of the fact that he passed on buying the Kings before the Maloofs signed the deal with Hansen.
This ^ reports say he passed because of valuation being too high and having to keep the team in Sacramento for 2 seasons. Why would any kings fans want him knowing he is dead set on SJ.
Lets say that KJ gets investors to put up a price matching Hansens, would Hansen and his group then have a chance to up their offer?
Forgive me if its a stupid question as though I am a die-hard sonics fan my knowledge of all this legal stuff is pretty non-existent
Pretty good article by John Talton comparing Seattle and Sacramento economically. Seattle has Sacramento beat hands down.
http://seattletimes.com/html/soundeconomywithjontalton/2020203939_seattle_vs_sacramento_the_econ.html
They shred this part of the paper before delivering a copy to the editorial board.
Lol
Stern/NBA do not want a bidding or auction circus. They will never let it go that far. Way, way too risky for the NBA for PR reasons and legal battles. Stern is much, much smarter than that. While I admire KJ, 3 press conferences in 3 days to say nothing. Embarassing. He is posturing for his voting citizens. KJ will throw in the towel. And sooner than later.
Any politician outside of Sacramento will not get involved in this.
Real simple: binding PSA, 30mill paid by Feb 1. Their is a sale of a team. The Sacramento Kings are moving to Seattle and will become the SuperSonics. They will play in Key Arena in Nov.
The only real questions at this point are if they will have an open scrimmage this summer at SPU, and will Patrick feature photos of the Sonics cheerleaders on his Facebook page like he does Seahawk cheerleaders?
Also, NBA lawyers have been working on the 7% auction for over a year. They would know the legality behind it and what to expect. That part makes me less worried. Also, the Ellison rumor is from the gentleman who’s shares are in bankruptcy court. Probably trying to gin up a rumor to drive up a price
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
On “right of first refusal” for #Kings minority owners: big difference between Maloofs having to accept match or only having to consider it.
Yup.
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
@McCannSportsLaw Help me out please. If the owner could just “consider”, doesn’t that weaken the clause?
@CarmichaelDave Yes. Fact that we haven’t heard about clause till last week makes me think it’s weakly worded.
Curious to see how it was worded. If it was weakly worded how exactly such a challenge handle in court.
Michael McCann@McCannSportsLaw
On “right of first refusal” for #Kings minority owners: big difference between Maloofs having to accept match or only having to consider it.
Carmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
@McCannSportsLaw Help me out please. If the owner could just “consider”, doesn’t that weaken the clause?
Michael McCann@McCannSportsLaw
@CarmichaelDave Yes. Fact that we haven’t heard about clause till last week makes me think it’s weakly worded.
Ha! finally beat ya to it paul
There shall be revenge.
Also, just so you know, I don’t just talk about making empty threats. I actually make empty threats.
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
@McCannSportsLaw thx. And as I understand, doesn’t owner invoking have to “perform”? Rights personal and not transferable, meaning no whale?
For once Dave is bringing up good questions regarding ROFR.
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
@CarmichaelDave Depends on wording of match - it might close the transaction or allow new offers (probably the latter for period of days).
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
@kfippin Yes & I’m skeptical there is this clause; but if its there, matching may not bind Maloofs or might allow new offer from Hansen.
Asked if Hansen’s legal team were aware of that clause.
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
@MorenoS209 @CarmichaelDave I’d be stunned if Hansen’s legal team wasn’t aware this clause existed - due dilligence should have revealed it.
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
@benfromedina I think odds are high Kings end up in Seattle, but not 100%. Johnson has influence + talk of NBA expansion could enter story.
Now you’re really starting to tick me off!!!
Its a rather large back and forth conversation to the point of i’m getting tired of copy and pasting.
One person is thinking the 30m may have something to do with the ROFR issue with the minority owners. One person thinks Maloofs violated the ROFR.
Actually when these ROFR rumors first surfaced CD was quite skeptical.
I would agree if such a clause existed we wouldn’t be at this point right now and we would of had heard of it much sooner.
If such ROFR existed one would think it would been taken care off already.
Brian Robinson@206empire
@CarmichaelDave claims to have a copy of a minority partner agreement. Give it to @McCannSportsLaw for review and end the speculation?
Paul, Dave doesn’t and McCann essentially asked why we can’t see it.
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
@1seahawker @ChrisDaniels5 Since not publicly traded company, no right to see it. Can’t use Freedom of Information Act since not govt actor.
said why we can’t see it.
He doesn’t want to end speculation
new thread up