The old one was misbehaving and this is easier than figuring out how to fix it.
People like to say “Just award an expansion team.” “Just buy a team.” “Just get an arena built.” like adding the word “just” makes it easy.
I never realized how big, complex and hard these things are. You are talking about billions of dollars, thousands of employees, hundreds of related contract obligations.
The league is not offering expansion because they can’t. They cannot promise it because they are a long way from delivering it. They may be able to say “we’d love to take a try” but they run liabiltiy risks even doing that.
So maybe they want to award a franchise somewhere as a result of this and maybe ultimately they do. There are still HUNDREDS of incremental steps to get it to the point where you could tell someone exactly if and how it is possible, let alone guarantee it.
The same could be said for, scaling up or down, just trade Vin Baker, just build an arena where there isn’t transportation infrastructure.
While I like the idea of an expansion team, I still don’t believe that the NBA is going to award a single expansion. With the way that schedules have to be made and the way that playoff spots are awarded, the league will want each conference to have the same number of teams. Any further expansion is going to have to come in pairs. That’s just another reason that expansion is a longer time frame compared to buying an existing franchise. Seattle is ready for a team almost immediately, but to my knowledge there are no other markets that are as far along in their planning as we are. Expansion would require waiting for another group to get their ducks in a row, and then the current owners would still need to be persuaded to add two more teams to the revenue pool.
Until all franchises have an ArenaSolution the NBA will not expand.
Not sure what is crazier. The Manti Te’o story or that the Nets are 9-1 under PJ Carlisimo.
Can we please stop talking about expansion?
From previous thread
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Baerwaldt and his attorney say the lawsuit was in the works for a while, and has nothing to do with #NBAKings-to-#Seattle.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
City/County leaders said those changes helped push #SeattleArena plan way past the I-91 threshold.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Baerwaldt testified prior to changes for transportation fund/Key Arena improvement. Hansen/Ballmer paying more out of pocket #SeattleArena
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Baerwaldt told me that he specifically warned Council #SeattleArena deal was I-91 non-compliant…and -his view- nothing changed.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
He says there are people still concerned with City follow thru on transportation financing…inc Mark Baerwaldt…listed as lead plaintiff.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Van Dyk stands by his original statement in September that #SeattleArena deal is ‘remarkable’, a ‘catalyst’, and he’s moved on..
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
I spoke again today w/Chris Van Dyk who sponsored I-91, and is NOT part of new #SeattleArena lawsuit…
and Baerwaldt is a total idoit. So it sounds like with Dyk moving on there are mixed opinion on I-91 regarding this deal.
http://www.king5.com/news/arena/Suit-by-arena-opponents-alleges-deal-violates-terms-of-I-91-187224771.html
“From my perspective, nothing has changed,” said Baerwaldt. “(I’m doing this) on the behalf of taxpayers”.
And the taxpayers aren’t paying for it only those that use the facility does.
He has no idea what I-91 even says or what the agreement even says.
This guy is a total clown and shouldn’t warrant any news coverage. I could careless about his attempt at a lawsuit, as it the definition of a shamsuit. The biggest drawback IMHO is that this keeps anti-arena crap in the news…. Somewhere, Peter Steinbrueck is doing his be “Mr. Byrnes” impression.
Baerwaldt has been politically active in the past, and it’s not the first time he has squared off against an arena financier. Baerwaldt was a major contributor to “No on Prop 1″ back in 2007. That group featured prominent Eastside backers, including Bellevue Square Owner Kemper Freeman. Records show Microsoft CEO (and current Hansen parter) Steve Ballmer helped fund the Prop. 1 campaign, donating $100,000 to “Keep Washington Rolling.” Proposition 1, a Roads and Transit Package, was rejected by taxpayers.
Baerwaldt is a luddite.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
I spoke again today w/Chris Van Dyk who sponsored I-91, and is NOT part of new #SeattleArena lawsuit…
I mean. Doesn’t that about cover it????
Government Name @Babyyao23
@ChrisDaniels5 If Hansen/Ballmer haven’t even submitted a purchase order to the NBA while KJ gets his $ line up is your 9 now at a 1?
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37m Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
@Babyyao23 I never said it was done.
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32m Government Name @Babyyao23
@ChrisDaniels5 Didn’t say that. I thought you told Jim Moore you’re at a 9 that it will get done. Was just asking if you’re still at a 9.
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29m Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
@Babyyao23 I will stay the course. Will have more to say tonight.
I am guessing that “asshat” would be an accurate descriptor?
Props to.my guy cvd who is much more reasonable than anyone gives him credit for. This would have been a way harder fight if he and licata hadn’t decided they didn’t want to fight something that was reasonable and mattered to so many people.
I know we all want Chris to make an announcement but it may be to our benefit if they keep quite a few more week. It keeps the details of the offer quite and may give KJ and Sac less time to react to his exact offer.
At this stage, it certainly appears that six weeks is going to be the equivalent of giving the Maloofs, KJ and Sacto more than enough rope to hang themselves with, unfortunately (for them).
just booked a last minute trip to NYC, trying to attend this sold out knicks/nets game on the 21st, seems like average price is $200 a ticket. damn.
there may be hundreds of steps involved in anything like this, but we have 5 years. if no team relocates here by a certain point in the 5 years, I do think the league will expand here. that’s probably unlikely, we should have a team bought by the time the 5 years are up, but I do think the recent comments from Stern/BOG indicate that they have resigned theirselves to the fact that if no team relocates here by a certain point in the 5 years, they may have to expand here to get a team here. don’t get me wrong, if they can avoid expansion by CH buying and relocating a team here, they will. but since they haven’t ruled out expansion here, I feel they are saying that they probably wont have to expand, but they will if it is necessary to get a team here in the 5 years.
huh
So, lets talk about this in 2017.
Since anyone can file a lawsuit maybe I should sue Baerwaldt for being a idiot and wasting Tax Payers Money with his lawsuit.
Is it my imagination or have the Sacramento fans gotten a lot more chippy yesterday and today? To me this shows cracks in their facade of confidence.
Carmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Although I’m rooting for expansion in Seattle, is be lying if I said I wasn’t hoping for them to get T’eo’d.
That is low.
They can lose the team and keep the legacy of Reggie Theus, forever.
They’ll always have this imaginary money from the imaginary season ticket sales that they keep bragging about
Right. Those pledges are such nonsense.
If the kings don’t come here, the pacers could be a dark horse. but I don’t see any other options. the bucks have a lease that makes it pretty hard to relocate here in the 5 years. ATL hawks’ lease costs way too much to get out of. don’t see MJ selling out the ‘Cats. if we don’t get the kings, the league will probably expand here within the 5 years. not saying it’ll be soon, it might be 2015-16 or even 16-17. but I don’t see any other good options.
If the Pacers leave Indianapolis after this year they would have to pay $30 million dollars to the city. That amount goes down each year after that but it’s not until 2020 that they can just leave. Of course, $30 million might not be a deal breaker for ArenaCo if they could realistically convince the team to sell.
The problem there is that the city desperately wants to keep them, the arena is still fairly new, and Indiana is crazy about basketball. Seems unlikely that they’re moving anytime soon.
Not tryin to be negative or a worry wart but im nervous about the kj bog meeting. Anyone else think he has a shot? I wanna believe this is just meaningless courtesy they are throwing him but ya never know…..
Money Talks. BOG isn’t going to deny Hansen/Ballmer if they really are offering $500 Million. Plus, the Maloofs own the team still, so if they don’t want to sell to a Sacramento group, they don’t have to.
The sale will be approved for the same reason that 28 owners voted to let Bennett move the Sonics: some day most of these owners are going to have to sell their teams and they will want to make as much money as possible.
I prefer that we get the kings this fall, but as long as we get a team in the 5 years, I can wait. I do not expect KJ to get far without an arena in his back pocket. but I don’t think another “we’ll keep Seattle informed about future teams being available” will work for the league this time. not with an arena in our back pocket and one of the richest potential ownership groups in league history.
Hansen/Ballmer offered $525 million if you listen to some reports.
Stands looking pretty bare in SacTown tonight.
so if it’s not the kings coming here, that leaves expansion. probably more like 2014-15 or 15-16, but that probably is the most likely way we get a team if it isn’t the kings.
Dont think the league is expanding. Kings or nothing for a few years and im tired of waiting.
Same here hughc5
don’t see any other team leaving. kings 13-14, or expansion 14-15 or 15-16. that’s how I see it.
If we don’t get the Kings, let’s jump off that bridge when we come to it.
Im tryin not to but this shady@$$ bog meeting kj is having makes me really nervous. If the league declines the hansen sale and trys to make the maloofs take a lesser offr from a sacto group cant the maloofs and or hansen file some kind of lawsuit against the nba?
Perhaps an anti-trust suit, but Hansen won’t do that. He is a relationship builder, not a bridge burner.
Everybody needs to stop worrying about this. The Multimillion/billionaires that own these NBA teams didn’t get to where they are by taking the smaller offer. Most everybody that owns a team in the NBA is a businessman. Approving Hansen/Ballmer is a business move that makes 100% sense, and the people that run the NBA know this.
Schultz took a lower offer.
11,611 is the announced attendance at SleepTrain Arena Tonight! OUCH!
But theyre so much bettr fans then us…… sorry but gloves are off now. We tried to be decent.
*better
You want to take a city’s team away from them and you expected it to stay civil? Let’s be honest about what we’re doing here, we’re attempting to break the hearts of a fanbase to replace what’s been stolen from us.
Let’s keep perspective and not allow ourselves to get dragged into any form of mudslinging. Any attempts Sac or KJ makes to keep their team aren’t any “shady” acts as you’ve described in another post, they’re fair attempts that we should have and we certainly wish we’d have gotten when the Sonics came to town.
Let’s do what Hansen and Ballmer are doing when it comes to Sac fans and so on, stay silent. Let’s just stay out of it until we hear something official, and when we do, let’s keep it classy.
Really? The mayor of sacto pitching his own proposal for less money then the people the team owners are negoitiating with and wanting the league to make them take it isnt shady? Sure wish that was an otion for. Just sayin…..
*option
I 100% agree with Sean. Nothing about what KJ is doing is “shady.” He is fighting like hell to keep the team in Sacramento. I wish we had him in Seattle 5 years ago. Do you think KJ would have sold-out like “Nickel-and-dime - Greg” did? I hope like heck we get the Kings, but at the same time, I feel terrible about “righting a wrong with a wrong.” Especially given that Sacramento doesn’t have another professional sports franchise to carry the torch.
Also, None of us really know what KJ is pitching to the BOG. If he is making a comparable offer + arena plan to keep the team in Sacramento, then the team should stay. It is rarely in the league’s best interest to have a team relocate. You alienate fan bases and places a black mark on the league – I think we all wish that would have been a consideration 5 years ago. Look at the NFL and MLB. How many teams have relocated in the past 15 years? I count one – Montreal Expos moved to DC and became the Washington Nationals. That’s one team relocation in 15 years between the two leagues. Fairly remarkable IMHO.
Hello, even the NFL has placed strict criteria that must be followed for before a team can be moved to Los Angeles. Yes, Los Friggen Angeles has a stadium plan in place and no team despite being the 2nd largest market!!! You think the NBA “needs” back in Seattle to get back in the 12th largest market? LA dwarfs the size of our market and it’s not even close. You would think the NFL would be chomping at the bit to move a team to LA! Instead, the NFL has placed strict criteria that must be met before a team will be considered for relocation. I’m not going to regurgitate that criteria here but the crux of it is that before moving to LA, the team must exhaust every possible opportunity in the existing city before relocating. Why is this important/ why am I talking about this here? IMHO The long term wealth of a professional sports league requires that fans have some level of trust in the league. The NFL wants to be damn sure that it’s fans trust that teams won’t just pick-up and leave. The days’ of teams relocating in the middle of the night (aka Baltimore Colts) are long over. The leagues simply cannot afford the negative press that comes in the digital era. If the NBA develops a reputation of being nomadic, the league popularity and profitability will undoubtedly suffer.
For these reasons, I believe the NBA should give KJ a shot at the BOG meeting, and be allowed to help find a local buyer. Nothing shady about it by KJ, or the NBA. Do I like KJ creating a Sacramento vs. Seattle type war with some of the comments he’s made? No, not at all, but I think that is just frustration coming out knowing this is a battle he probably won’t be able to win. Fight the good fight and cheer for the Kings, Sonic fans, but try not to trash KJ or Sacramento’s efforts in this whole thing. Seems like bad karma to me.
Totally agree with NumbersGuy. Well said. Sac def deserves a chance to match and save their team.
Let’s stop with trying to discredit their efforts. Or pointing out their attendance. That’s the exact bush league crap we hated spme of the OKC folks for pulling. We need to be bigger than that. Especially where we are coming from and what we’ve gone through.
Don’t compare the NFL with the NBA.
The tv revenue sharing is different, far different, and there will be a team there shortly, these things take time.
The NBA would rather have Steve Ballmer as an owner than any of the other names being considered. They would prefer a new arena to Sleep train or Key Arena, the new arena being in Seattle or Sacramento doesn’t matter too much as far as facilities go.
This comes down to the current owner choosing to sell to the group of their choice, and that team is sold to a capable owner in a viable market that has a plan for a modern facility for the foreseeable future, and there is local corporate sponsorship.
I agree. And it’s not surprising or much of an indictment that their attendance is low under the circumstances, just as it was with us during the last season.
Well said.
Sacramento already has broken hearts of a fanbase. They were the kansas city fans.
to be fair they are playing the Wizards, who absolutely blow. But if they are trying to change perception and mount a fan movement it certainly doesn’t help.
Is that the lowest so far this season? It must be close…
I’m also nervous about the KJ proposal. If Maloof’s would pocket approx the same $$ from a group who will keep the team in Sac and the arena issue is solved with the same deal before the Maloof’s backed out - - - why would the BOG/relocation committee approve the sale to Hansen ? I just don’t think the NBA would be willing to endure that “big black eye” even if they thought the league would make more $$ in Seattle. It seems to me we are “banking” on KJ not coming up with a competitive bid. Frankly, I wouldn’t underestimate the KJ/Stern relationship. Stern & the NBA have always seem to be willing to work with KJ/Sac.
Am I missing something ???
They want Hansen/Balmer as owners though.
We have to stop talking about expansions that probably won’t come. There’s no other team available to buy. There’s no guarantee about make an expansion before 2017 so let focus on this match, for us is now or never. I’m really sorry for Sac fans, I would prefer an expansion for Seattle too, but we have to accept that now it’s they or we, so I have no doubts: let’s take their team, and after that the expansions, bidders, and all this issue will be THEIR problem.
No doubt they would rather have Hansen/Balmer as owners. But, it would be a NBA
PR nightmare to sell the team to Hansen/Balmer if there’s a reasonably equal offer on the table from KJ/Sac. Even though they might privately prefer Seattle, I just can’t see how they could publicly rationalize turning down a comparable offer from Sac. The only thing the MaGoof’s care about is how many $$ they walk away with - not who owns the team. It’s the NBA who has the vested interest in how this sale is perceived by the public.
The NBA can not force a sale to one over the other by how they “feel”. The owner of the franchise chooses a buyer with a viable plan and the means to purchase and own long term.
Why weren’t local people allowed to bid for the Sonics in Seattle?
There is a double standard already in play here, but that difference depend on the owner allowing the to be the case. The Maloofs may still say no to Sacramento, all other things being relatively equal.
The situation when Shultz sold was fundamentally different from this one. We had absolutely no sign from the local government at the time of the sale that there was an arena deal to be had, in fact the NBA was convinced that city and state officials, as well as the public with the passage of I-91, had no desire to build the Sonics a new home. By the time the Ballmer plan was proposed Bennett already owned the team and we were too far down the path to relocation.
Sacramento, on the other hand, has a mayor who is a former NBA player. They have an arena deal that was approved by all the major stakeholders and has AEG to run. That deal was turned down by the owners because they are in financial trouble and looking for a way out. If a new ownership group was approved in Sacramento the city believes they could resurrect that deal and get it done.
Having said all that, the NBA is gonna get whatever the NBA wants. Clearly the NBA wanted out of Seattle at that time, and it looks like they want back in now. Chris Hansen is a ridiculously smart businessman from what we’ve seen. His silence throughout this leads me to believe he’s doing exactly what the NBA wants because he knows that’s the best way to get what we want. If he plays the game their way we get a team, it’s as simple as that.
Hey guys, new here, but I’ve been reading posts for quite some time now. I had to chime in & give my 2 cents on the matter. I’m guessing that the Hansen/Balmer group has already done their due diligence in the matter of finding a team or expansion. Expansion is probably off the table, & the other markets are not in play at this point in time. This is probably why they landed on the Kings as the most likely target for relocation. So, it’s either the Kings to Seattle, or no go for a VERY long time, (maybe the NBA will never return to the Seattle market if this deal falls apart) which would put the arena deal in serious jeopardy. Hello 5 year window! Hansen & his group are VERY savvy business people, agreed. From what I’ve heard, the Maloofs owning a portion of the team is a deal breaker. Does that sound like Chris Hansen to you? After everything he did, basically bending backwards to meet the requirements of the city & county councils!? As people have said on this blog before, Hansen is a DEAL MAKER, not a deal breaker. So KJ is proposing a local ownership group, new arena, & the Maloofs keep some semblance of ownership in the team. One BIG problem, the Maloofs don’t want the team in Sactown anymore. They’ve made this obviously clear (Anaheim, Las Vegas, Virginia Beach, Louisville, Kansas City, etc.) HELLO!! What if the Hansen/Balmer group appeals to the Maloofs sensibilities here. I know nobody wants the Maloofs to be apart of this deal with the return of Sonics2.0, but, if KJ is throwing that carrot out there, lets play along. What if Hansen/Balmer purchase the Maloofs 53% stake in the team, which would give them the majority, & then allow the Maloofs to purchase the 12% stake that Heinrich, (I don’t know if this is correct name, but going with it anyway) owns with no say in the day to day operations of the team. Remember, 7% will be auctioned off later this year, which Hansen/Balmer/Nordstrom/CostCo etc. would then be able to purchase giving them 60% stake, plus what other additional minority owners sell their shares once the team files for relocation when that happens. Now, if you’re the Maloofs, what sounds better to you? Owning a portion of Sonics2.0, brand spanking new arena, rabid fan base (Washington State, Idaho, Montana, the whole Western part of Canada, etc.) BIG MARKET, profitability, & they get to walk down the Vegas strip with Seattle SuperSonics/Hansen is our hero T-shirts once the Sonics start kicking ass in the NBA again, with a winning money making franchise in a big market & they don’t have to make the day to day decisions to keep their egos in tact & say “I own 10% of the Sonics!” Plus the gratification they’d probably get from giving the middle finger & a big fuck you to that slimeball David Stern on his way out the door of the commishes office!! If the Maloofs financial situation doesn’t improve over the next few years, that’d be fine too, just sell the 12% to the Hansen/Balmer group, problem solved! Here’s hoping in Oly for a return of our Seattle Supes for the ’13-’14 season! Now let’s get this deal done!!
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/why-t-nba-teams-fill-arenas-even-giving-193354981-nba.html
The comments are more accurate than the story. The Pistons and Pacers have no shot at winning it all.
How is the attendance at Safeco Field?
Seahawks Stadium?
The frequency of games and the travel to the stadium/arena is a factor. Going to 8 NFL game are 8 events. 41 Pistons games, on a Tuesday night …
Secondary costs, travel, parking, eating, they count and add up.
Personally, I’m pumped to know that I will be able to park at Northgate and ride a bus or light rail to the game with my family.
I’ll eat at the Ram before I go.
Put that arena in Rainier Valley, Bellevue, two trains or a toll+parking.
Location and ease of access to the location matter, your team having a chance to succeed matters, the secondary costs matter.
That crap about getting news at home on the game just doesn’t seem like an issue in a modern facility owned by a billionaire software owner and a social media investor. If that is a problem in other facilities then that’s on the team of facility owner to solve. If they can blow money on a shitter bench player then they can afford decent and free wifi.
it’s about to be sacramento’s turn to be ‘out’ in franchise musical chairs. as a great philosopher once said: “it’s not personal. it’s strictly business.”
this is the way every league runs itself. seattle fans aren’t being asked to choose between expansion or relocation. in fact, seattle fans aren’t being asked anything at all. we’ll take what we get and like it or lump it, just as every other fan base does.
don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good. there’s no expansion team, but there is a likelihood of sonics2 and that, amigos, is what we’ve been waiting for.
@BMayNews10, Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson plans to have ownership group in place by NBA All-Star weekend (mid-February).
Makes sense at least from a PR standpoint to say you will. Pretty ridiculous that they expect to have a competitive “bid” when they won’t have a group in place by then. This says nothing about an arena or anything about the Seattle groups timeline for a sale.
Hansen said it was INEVITABLE a team would be had. Either he lied, was delusional or telling the truth.
So if I have my timeline right and based on the info I got, It sounds like KJ will present his proposal to the BOG at All-Star weekend. I was confused because I thought it was at the Mid-April meetings but I forgot they meet during All-star Weekend. Mark February 16th on your calendar as that will likely be a big day in this saga. That is Saturday of All-star weekend and David Stern and Adam Silver always hold a press conference in the afternoon to discuss league affairs and what was discussed at the BOG meeting. The Kings to Seattle will likely be the hottest topic of those meetings. I would expect Chris Hansen to be at the meetings or at least in Houston for All-star weekend. It is likely that Stern wants this resolved by March 1st so that if Hansen is the winning bid he can proceed with his Relocation request. Remember with the Sonics relocation it drug out until July 2nd because of court case and the NBA and Bennett had to scramble to move the team for the 08-09 season.
This sounds about right. That presser will be on NBA.com so everyone will be able to watch it. It makes me wonder if a deal with Mr. Hansen gets done if the league wants to keep it under wraps as a deference to mayor Johnson. That might be a bad PR move, but who knows. Basically all we know is the deal is close and most indications from unbiased observers seem to indicate to a move to Seattle being the likely outcome.
My feeling is that we will go into All Star Weekend with a “tentative” deal between Hansen and the Maloofs. I also learned that if their are two “matching” offers to the Maloofs that the NBA does have the power to choose which deal is best for the selling owner. They can’t force them to sell but they can choose between “equal” offers.
even if the Maloofs only accept one?
KJ called the Seattle offer ridiculous so not sure he’d come with an equal offer.
Essentially, the BOG can not approve one sale. If they would is another question altogether, but they do have the ability to say no. Usually a low offer is only accepted in some sort of auction scenario where certain owners may be better for the sake of the game (i.e. the Texas Rangers). But I can’t imagine the owners not wanting a rich group that will spend money (and be on the good side from a revenue sharing perspective) and bring a team to a bigger market. This is just supposition of course.
Slow news yesterday and so far today (as of 7:32am).
Thought I’d revisit something from a couple of threads ago. Remember my experience with a certain McDonalds restaurant in Yakima where some pimply faced whipper snapper sold me a sausage burrito that was quite poorly put together?
Well the same McDonalds this morning sold me a large diet coke and DID NOT provide a straw. Should this be the last straw for that particular McDonalds?
Discuss…
How can it be the last straw if they didn’t give you one?
Think of it as a Teo last straw.
Hey uncle. what mcdonalds do you keep going to? the one by shopko?
16th and lincoln.
What’s really going to blow his mind is when he gives it one more shot, and ends up with a sausage burrito with a straw in it. :)
the difference between LA and us is that LA took 17 years from when they lost their teams to pass a stadium, just passing it last year. its kinda ridiculous to expect an NFL team to relocate there in 1 year. LA will get a team, just like we will. both leagues will find a way. but both cities have to be willing to wait. these things take time.
we may have to wait the full 5 years, but the league will find a way. I truly believe that.
Hansen also said the arena isn’t tied to getting the kings.
I just don’t see how the BOG can turn down the Hansen/Ballmer group for the kings without giving some kind of resolution, at least in private, that they’ll have a team within the 5 years. “we’ll keep them informed” wont work this time. not with us having an arena in our back pocket and ballmer on board.
My answer from Scott Howard Cooper on twitter when I asked him if Relocation fee could be taken off Sacramento counter offer. His response is below. Interesting to note that he indicates that Sac Loan to Maloofs for $77 mill may not necessarily be subtracted either.
Scott Howard-Cooper @SHowardCooper
@sonicsman I hope it does clarify. Don’t want to add another layer of confusion.
Scott Howard-Cooper @SHowardCooper
@sonicsman Relocation fee is semantics. I don’t know if Hansen-Ballmer would officially be paying or Maloofs. But $$ would come from H-B.
6m Scott Howard-Cooper @SHowardCooper
@sonicsman Same with assumption that Sac price would be less because Maloofs would not have to pay city $77M on arena lease. No certainty.
6m Scott Howard-Cooper @SHowardCooper
@sonicsman the table. They have leverage and could try to use it against Sac. Asking price from Sac may not be lowered the way some assume.
7m Scott Howard-Cooper @SHowardCooper
@sonicsman Selling to Sac group means no relocation. Therefore, no relocation fee. But that doesn’t mean Maloofs will take that off —>
I don’t get his explanation.
KJ is on record stating that the loan would not have to be paid back in full if there is local ownership and that is the main reason why Sacramento is able to offer less.
In my head, the only way the relocation fee would the be responsibility of the Maloofs is if they are the owners of the Kings at the time of the relocation filing which would never be the case.
So if he’s stating that there is a chance that the Maloofs are the owners of the Kings when the relocation request is filed then the relocation fee should not be in the conversation of the sale price.
KJ is on the record saying the loan WILL eventually have to be paid in full. The differences is in timing. If Hansen buys the team and moves it to Seattle, the loan would have to be paid immediatly. If the team is sold to local owners who keep the team in Sacramento, the loan will be assumed by the ownership group and repaid at a later time. Therfore, the “up front” sales price for Hansen of $525m would compareable to a ~$450m loan from a Sacramento buyer. The major difference here is that in the eyes of an investor, this transaction is a $525m deal either way, it’s just semantics on when the loan is paid. There are other considerations I am not privy to (interest on the loan, time value of when loan must be repaid, etc) but in general, an acquiring owner should consider $450m cash plus $75m assumed loan to be result in a transaction price of $525m.
The relocation fee is above and beyond the transaction price and will not benefit a local owner by allowing a lower price to match.
In such a case, the BOG might be even less likely to approve a sale to an ownership group that assumes the loan rather than one that pays it off immediately. The NBA doesn’t want debt laden franchises, so to them it might be worth the loan being paid off rather than having it assumed, especially if a sacramento team is a beneficiary of revenue sharing. Maybe that is why he thinks the loan is a non factor? I really am not a wizard when it comes to these sorts of transactions, but that could be of benefit to Mr. Hansen especially if this group is not as deep pocketed.
* the loan does not have to be paid in full at the time of purchase if the Kings were bought by local ownership.
Numbersguy is correct it will have to be paid regardless.
Who is the author of the @herewebuyseattle twitter account and petition?
I want to support the cause but need to know its legitimate before providing personal info..
Correction @herewebuysea
The petition. It is on change.org. I feel like if we needed to do something like this, CH would have it organized through the sonicsarena website. But I guess it doesn’t hurt anything to have that going.
Something like this, you mean?
http://www.sonicsarena.com/petition/
Yeah but that was the petition that Hansen showed the councils when they were having the meetings about the MOU. That isn’t a new petition.
Why do we need a new one?
Especially when no elected I’ve ever seen or known pays attention to or cares about internet petitions unless it supports their pet cause. It’s like saying “my Facebook arena page has 10,000 likes!”
You’re saying we need a second internet petition because elected officials don’t care about internet petitions?
Is it just me or does All Star weekend seem about 2 years away? I’m so impatient, I just want this resolved one way or the other.
From ESPN
“If the Kings move, then what?”
http://es.pn/UDcNDH
There is some epic crazy brewing up in here, a few more slow news days and we may have a psychological playground for any student looking to write their thesis.
I almost think that slow news is good news, but call me crazy.
10 years ago, none of this would be news until something actually happened.
Not to put the cart before the horse, but why is Jason Thompson playing so many minutes ahead of Thomas Robinson? Only the Kings would draft a guy like Robinson and then re-sign a replacement-level guy like Thompson for big money relegating Robinson to the bench.
First thing I want the new GM to do when these guys get up here is to Amnesty or Trade Jason Thompson to open up the PF position for Robinson.
Keith Smart is just his name.
And middle name is “Notso”
Jason Thompson is not a bad player especially for $5 mil. There are other players who should be left off the team before Thompson.
Thomas Robinson definitely has way more upside than Thompson and that is where Smart comes in and how he delegates PT.
Problem is, Thompson’s salary escalates by half a mil each year until it hits almost 7 mil in 4 years.
That isn’t terrible, of course, if he warrants the playing time. But a PF has to be able to occasionally grab a rebound or block a shot. And you have to see what you have in Robinson.
Marcus Thornton is making 8, then 8.5 the next couple years. He would be a candidate for Amnesty too, I’d imagine. Especially if they draft another guard (like McLemore or one of the PGs…)
I’d rather use the amnesty on Travis Outlaw. Again.
Where is Jeremiah Jackson of KJ’s Think Big lately? Still waiting for the “high noon” debate w Hansen probably. This whole year has been quite a ride. We can wait another month and a half.
Jon Humbert @jonhumbert
At a design meeting for #SeattleArena. Lots of talk of outdoor plaza. Architects want people to hang out on game day.
Jon Humbert @jonhumbert
#SeattleArena firm talking about an on-site restaurant that would be open 365 days a year. “Stadium club” feel on game day.
@ryan_lillis: NBA Commissioner Stern on #NBAKings: ‘The one thing we do know is no purchase and sale agreement has been submitted to us.’
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
RT @ryan_lillis: Stern: We are more or less in series of communications. But right now, we don’t know anything in terms of actionable times.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
RT @ryan_lillis: Stern’s comments made during press conference in London, where Knicks and Pistons play tonight. #NBAKings
Ryan Lillis @Ryan_Lillis
Stern on AEG, which is still interested in #Sacramento arena project: ‘We’re like members of the same family.’ #NBAKings
This makes sense. AEG runs most of the arenas and the NBA and them love extorting money from cities to get new arenas.
Announce the deal already.
I hate to say this, but hearing Stern verbally spoon the city of Sacramento gives me serious pause to wonder if we will ever have a team again.
well i guess i should give up my hope of seeing NHL in seattle.
Stern really doesn’t seem like he wants the Kings to leave. He is still giving them a chance. Sad.
which means stern never really wants to have hansen/balmer as owners and never wants to improve the fiances of the league.
with how he dealing with the kings.
For as much as KJ is in communication with Stern, I can bet that Hanson has had as much communication with Stern and Hanson knows what Stern views are in the situation.
Out of everything I believe in Hanson. I believe in his foresight and planning and that every move he makes is with a purpose and a plan. He is 5 steps ahead of everyone and there is an endgame that will end with Hanson owning a team in Seattle.
Seems like a pretty extreme reaction to what basically amounts to a glorified ‘no comment’.
Yep, that’s pretty much what he said.
I’m trying to remain upbeat and optimistic, but it sure seems on the surface that the league is bending over backwards to give Sacramento a legit shot at this. I’m just getting the vibe that this deal needed to be finalized and a done deal before KJ was granted an audience with the BOG. With the deal still in limbo and KJ given time to put together a respectable package that we will be left without a team yet again. Feel free to talk me off the cliff….again.
For all we know a deal could be done but things are being drawn up. The NBA won’t say anything until they receive an actual document. It does seem that they are giving Sacramento another chance but there really was nothing that out of the ordinary from what I just read.
C’mon guy’s! Stern isn’t going to publicly say, “I can’t wait to move the Kings from Sacramento!”. Nothing has changed with since last fall other than we now know the Madoof’s are at least now entertaining the idea of selling the Kings. Other than that, we’re still speculating along with the media.
My guess though is, the kings are sold to Hansen and moved to Seattle.
What do you guys expect Stern to say?
GTFO AEG, we love Seattle and KJ can go to hell?
There still isn’t anything official and as long as the partys negotiating Stern certainly won’t make a real statement on things.
AEG’s also a partner of the league and he certainly won’t say anything against them as well.
Currently the facts are still that:
- we have a deal for a building
- we have a group of willing buyers that include Hansen, Ballmer and the Nordstroms
- we seem to be willing to pay way over market value to aquire a team
- KJ’s searching publicly for members on his group of buyers
- SAC might have a plan for an arena but it’s still not certain
- Stern’s doing his good ‘ol impression of “we like all our guys and are willing to give everyone a shot”
So just calm down and wait for the real news, which will still take some time and include official statements from teams and ownership groups
Thank you! You said it waaaay better than me…LOL.
Thanks that makes me feel better, I’m just dying on the inside waiting to hear this is a done deal. I am like a little kid waiting for Christmas, only Christmas keeps getting pushed back.
stern learned a lesson with his harsh handling of the SONICS situation in 08. makes sense that hed take a different approach with his public statements in this new scenario. i wouldnt take his comments as a sign of anything one way or the other. have faith in chris.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
#SeattleArena architects also acknowledged grand plaza design is evolving & they are experimenting w/solar concepts/design. It will change.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Hansen’s LLC owns former Paper Zone and HDTV Guyz lots now (across Holgate from each other) which would be for #SeattleArena parking garage.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
That would require the vacation of Holgate. I told you earlier this month about another #SeattleArena land buy near that intersection…
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Chris Hansen’s architects publicly acknowledged today the possibility of building #SeattleArena parking garage at 1st/Holgate
port of seattle/union won’t like vacation of holgate for that possible parking garage
@ChrisDaniels5
I will stay the course. Will have more to say tonight.
I assume vacate means getting rid of the street? Was that part of the previous arrangement?
Yes, getting rid of the street
No not holgate. It was the street that is going through where the arena site is that is being removed per agreement.
Vacate of Holgate is new.
Vacation does mean getting rid of the street. A vacation of Holgate has not been part of the proposal.
They won’t vacate Holgate. Maybe a pedestrain bridge.
Loud Noises!!!!!!
My thoughts:
1) on the one hand, Stern has always showed favoritism towards Sacramento and KJ, so it doesn’t surprise me that he appears to be giving them another chance to keep the team.
2) on the other, he has supposedly become a staunch supporter of the Hansen-Ballmer group and their attempts to buy into the league (according to the reports by Wojnarowski and Aldridge, who are pretty plugged in), likes the way they’ve gone about trying to get an arena deal done and become owners, etc. So you would think that they wouldn’t be trying to buy the Kings without first checking with Stern if it was okay (in fact, Woj reported a while back that Stern was actually pressuring the Maloofs to sell to them).
I guess what I’m trying to say is that this doesn’t add up. Which makes me worry if Stern has some new underhanded, devious scheme going on. You can’t trust anything he says or does.
Although underhanded and devious, there’s nothing really new about the scheme to pit city against city in attempts to build new arenas. If successful in getting a new arena in Sacramento, the Hansen/Ballmer group could be used again for similar purposes in another city in the near future (Milwaukee, for instance). They could be more useful to the league as potential owners than actual owners.
which means no team and no arena for seattle thus no balmer/hansen as owners which the NBA wants.
The arena deal expires unless a team gets secured it won’t get built.
I think that Stern would tell any very wealthy person that the NBA wants them. Then Stern has an ample supply of wealthy individuals to use. I agree with the other commenter that Stern, or anything he says, is not to be trusted.
He is likely trying to keep whatever this ends up being from turning into another PR nightmare for him and the league. Some folks need to take a shot and relax as this is going to be the path until resolution.
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
David Stern on #Kings-to-Seattle: “The one thing we do know is that no purchase and sale agreement has been submitted to us…”
Chris Daniels @ChrisDaniels5
Stern: “..and we assume if one were going to be executed, the next thing they would do is submit it to us” #NBAKings
Submit it already. Seahawks are done.
That’s assuming its actually done and ready to be submitted. Its more complex then coming to an agreement. Their lawyers have to get involved in the agreement too.
If you want to listen to Sterns comments regarding Sac you can go to the link below and in the article there is a link to the audio
http://t.co/Mqk3hHza
Listen to Stern comments about talking to KJ he said that KJ asked if he could speak to the BOG not to present a counter offer.
Maybe that was talked about during a separate conversation but not according to what Stern said.
And the plot thickens, nice find John_S
Another thing, in regards to AEG. Where Ryan Lillis that Stern said in regards to AEG that “We’re like members of the same family” he made it sound like Stern said that in context to the Sacramento arena situation BUT HE DID NOT!
Stern mentioned this when he was going through his thanks you’s in the beginning of the presser. He said “I would like to thank our good friends AEG and the 02. We’re like members of the same family. They treat us well in their venues all over the world.”
At 1:57 mark of the link below….
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/01/17/20130117-stern-press2.nba/
*where Ryan Lillis mentioned that Stern…..
Funny how things can sometimes be taken a little out of context when trying to tweet things
I think that the tweet rumour thing has gotten so out of hand, that no tweets can be believed. There needs to be some protocol, or a set of manners, set up to stop tweets from being nothing worth paying attention to. It needs to be made socially unacceptable to tweet unsubstantiated claims. What has been going on with tweets as regards Sacramento/Seattle is just plain impolite. I think most are sent only to gain notoriety for the sender.
Would be nice but i doubt it’ll happen. Would be nice if there were more honest and less bias reporters that try to explain things clear in tweets and not try to make them be one sided.