No it didn’t happen. But that is the type of thing that would scare the hell out of me if I were in the Kings shoes. Thats what would happen here. Putting these things together is so much more complicated than anybody knows.
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“so much more complicated than anybody knows”….anyone except BR, that is.
Michael McCann had some interesting stuff to say about the meeting on the 3rd.
“It makes sense to me that by the end of that meeting on the third they will have a decision,”
“It’s important for them to have a decisive vote because if there is a divided vote, it sort of raises questions about the process and suggests there is uncertainty about this in the league,” McCann said. “So to avoid what could be portrayed as a result where some owners won and others lost, I think they probably will want to have an overwhelming vote when they vote. To get to that point, they have to discuss it beforehand, and that’s where the April 3 meeting is crucial to that.”
http://seattletimes.com/html/nba/2020605282_sacramento21.html
I’ll say it again: the whole process from Sac seems so incredibly ham-fisted.
In other news. . . Does anyone know why the Sonics Rising SB Nation logo has disappeared?
From previous thread
Ryan Lillis @Ryan_Lillis 37m
City Manager Shirey: ‘“There is nothing new to report. We have been in discussions all day with the Investors…(Con’t)’
Ryan Lillis @Ryan_Lillis 37m
Shirey: ‘and those discussions will continue . We anticipate that the #arena Term Sheet will be made public tomorrow afternoon.”
Well sounds like still no deal.
I don’t think anyone doubts they will get a deal done. Its got to happen. The question will. Be in the strength and details of that deal
Frankly i’m tired of the whole waiting game. I’m annoyed that for us to finally be able to host a NHL team requires the yes vote of sale and relocation of the kings from the NBA.
I would rather we being able to build that arena with out the stupid NBA involved.
It’ll be interesting to find out if they are going to use bonds and use the parking to pay back the bonds or if they are actually going to take bids on administering the parking.
Also how much is the city going to pay Burkle/JMA to lease the building. Who is responsible for upkeep of the arena. Who is responsible for getting events in the arena and if there will be a split in the revenue from the events outside if bball.
“I’ll say it again: the whole process from Sac seems so incredibly ham-fisted.”
It just seems so “thrown together”….results are usually a blobby unappealing mess when that is the case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-XKauSB2sI
Brian what exactly do you think we should look for that will be key to the strength of their offer? Or is it something that will have to analyzed beforehand to see where there are holes. So kind of like is there generic things that are usually main points of contention in these types of deals or is it a case by case type thing?
I believe bonds are not an option. they are tapped out regarding debt capacity.
The city financial guy or whatever said about a month ago they have no borrowing capacity, that’s why this will be half assed. Burkle hasn’t even been to Sac to meet with them
Uh oh. Soundersfan going all Peter on us. Chill, dude. Its going to be ok.
And why the hostility to the nba? You do realize the site you’re on is made up of the biggest die hard Sonics fans there is, right? I’m sorry some of US belittled the MLS. But this is an NBA fan site. ;)
I’m honestly stunned the politicians are rolling with KJs fantasy here
How did Miami win that game holy crap they are a team of destiny to break the record. Down 24 at the half and win geez
Sacbee mentioned revenue bonds in their story.
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/20/5276658/sacramento-downtown-arena-kings.html
How can they use bonds if they are tapped out in debt capacity?
Why? Sac’s politicians are firmly in step with KJ on everything. Save one or two council members, they will do what he wants. They are a desperate city realizing they might lose the one thing outside of being the capital of California that makes them relevant. They passed that insane parking deal. That would never even have been considered here. Ever. They’ll do just about anything they possibly can.
I was once a die hard NBA fan in the 90′s btw. I get the belittled MLS cause it is somewhat true given how fringe it is. Sometimes i just need to vent off cause i can get easily annoyed.
Or even more frightening
Kehriotis Kehriotis Keh-ri-otis
Kehriotis Kehriotis Keh-ri-otis
Kehriotis Kehriotis
Oh Oh Oh Kehriotis
It’s all good. I’m excited for hockey too. And even enjoy the Sounders to a degree. But the return of the Supes is what most of us are craving right now. We just gotta wait another month!
Oh i know i would like to see the Sonics return as well as anyone else but the whole arena being build depending on the Sonics returning though. I would like to see it built regardless if we secure the team or not. That way if NBA says no on sale and relocation we can still get hockey but alas it is what it is.
It does make me a bit thankful for all of the political crap we do have to go through up here, though. As annoying as our NIMBYs and our city council opposition was, the machinery of political sausage making up here ends up netting us a great deal with little risk. Sacramento seems to have the political wheels greased to do whatever KJ wants, with a mere few days of public review of the whole thing, no matter what it really means for the city.
I love pro-sports, I hate the nay sayers who say there is no cultural value or that it’s a total economic drain, etc., but to sell to your city that an NBA arena and team are actually going to be a catalyst for an economic upsurge is not evidence based and dangerously optimistic at best, entirely disingenuous at worst.
Philip Cardella @polonius916 1h
@McCannSportsLaw What steps would still separate Seattle from Sac?
Expand Reply
Michael McCann Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw 1h
@polonius916 Problem for SAC is NBA doesn’t have a choice between SAC or SEA- it’s 1) approve SEA or 2) reject SEA & hope Maloofs cooperate.
If the maloofs get screwed here why the hell would they cooperate?…..
+1000
Miami down 27 in second half were up by like 6 w six minutes left. Sheesh
If McCann right that the April 3 meeting is being held to round up a unanimous vote, it’s over. Burkle hasn’t even come to Sacto? How much confidence does that gives the NBA? Zero.
I hear Don Meredith and the Fat Lady warming up.
^ Excuse the sloppy grammar.
My feeling is if after the 3rd the BOG decides against us, Hansen will back out shortly thereafter and secure something else. I don’t see him going in to the 18th already knowing he’ll be rejected. If he doesn’t back out and receive another team somehow, someway, even if it is down the line, I don’t see the league saying no. Hansen/Maloofs would both have to be complicit in the decision. If we’re left empty handed without even a future handshake agreement, suing might not be a pretty option, but it may be considered if that’s all they have left. I heard the $30 mil deposit was also to allow for future legal action should the need arise. If mighty MLB was worried about losing their anti-trust exemption, a suit may make anti-trust a lot easier to prove down the line against the NBA. I think it would be an nuclear option, but people often forget the way the M’s were secured.
I agree. The is an undercurrent of stability and confidence in having the open and thoroughly scrutinized deal Hansen has with Seattle that is a benefit in his offer to buy the Kings, and our long term Public-private partnership with him.
There aren’t any surprises, other than his ability to be so open, prepared, and moving quickly on the Kings offer.
He’s no pulling this out of his ass at the last minute.
Chokelahoma chokes in ot. Grizz win.
No, he has an offer with a $30 million dollar non-refundable deposit.
It would be stupid to back out, there is zero upside to that.
He would go to the meeting on the 18th, and if it went against him then he would be at a meeting with all of the other owners were he could make his intentions known that he would be willing to buy any other franchise fom any other owner in the room.
No matter, they do not have reasonable criteria to deny the sale and relocation.
You are wasting your time fantasizing about failure. It is either approved, or not.
Good for the Grizz. They are giving it a good effort.
Exactly, they have $30 million of Hansen’s dollars which would buy them enough time to take control of that failed situation. Not pretty, the NBA would be burning that bridge, I just don’t see the Maloofs just going along to make the NBA happy, why should they, seriously.
If McCann right that the April 3 meeting is being held to round up a unanimous vote, it’s over. Burkle hasn’t even come to Sacto? How much confidence does that gives the NBA? Zero.
Hey, how many times has the Mariners’ owner been to Seattle?
I hear Don Meredith and the Fat Lady warming up.
Wouldn’t assume that.
All they have to do is say they will take the team back and hold a very public auction, maybe Ellison would offer more and agree to keep the team there, and go with the rail yard site.
The money for the Arena is reliant on the proceeds the Arena would generate…that is why they can’t just build an Arena without the NBA…
Or more likely Ellison would move them to San Jose. That’s a move that’s made possible by the Warriors moving across the bay to San Francisco.
Such would be a win-win situation for the NBA. More money in San Francisco than Oakland. More money in San Jose than Sacramento.
Yeah and the NBA may not like the idea of Sacramento laying it out that it will help the downtown economy. The only economist that I have seen to say that an arena can have a positive effect on an economy is if it is a well thought out business plan. Chances are this isnt the most well thought out plan. Will the NBA want to be partially used as a scapegoat if Sacramento’s economy stays in the toilet. Its one thing to want the NBA and building an arena but it is another thing to sell it as a beacon for economic prosperity where the economy is bleak.
I have family that loves basketball in Sacramento but they are worried that the city is going to sellout financially for this arena and spinning it as an economic boon for the city. they don’t believe it because of all the studies saying that stadiums/arenas have a negligible impact at best and a negative one at worst. KJ is selling it as a boon for the local downtown economy to have a selling point to the business population. To spur an economy you have to raise the residential base in an area and the businesses follow suit.
Yes they would be building an arena that has a better location but it isnt adding anything that they dont already have in terms of product. The fact that they are selling it as good for business is a little misleading. To be fair industry isn’t going to come to the area because of an arena and the Kings. Most business closes by the time games would be played or people coming to the games. Sure restaurants and bars will see an uptick in business but most other business wouldn;t be affected one way or another. I just dont see it as a smart thing to sell an arena in downtown Sacramento as a key to having economic stability there. That is misleading IMO.
Thats what I like about Hansen’s project is he is assuming most of not all the risk and it isnt being percieved as some beacon of hope for the economy. It is for entertainment and enjoyment and not as a key factor to our economy.
Like I have said before if thats what they believe will be the key to economic success in the region then all the power to them. I just hope that they arent being misled as it could have a direct impact on my own family members and people just like them because the mayor has a bone to pick and doesnt want to be the ex player who let the team leave on his watch. Tick tock tick tock
And more money in Seattle than Sacramento.
Just saw that okc choked away a win. Also saw Westbrick went 7 for 25. Holy crap that’s bad!!!!!!
The only way an Arena is a positive for a city is when it is located in a region with many other highly populated cities that surround that city. Sacramento does not fit that model.
And even then, how often or how likely is it going to be the driving force behind a resurgent downtown economy?
I want to clarify my position again, since I brought it up in this thread, that I’m not a downer on arenas as economic centers. I think a SoDo arena and the presences of year round sports and events will be good for a lot of those locations down there that have huge dead spots throughout the year, and obviously there is a positive effect to immediate surrounding location. I just don’t buy the idea of an arena being the centerpiece in an economic revitalization. I realize Arco is old and outdated, but look at the events that place hosts. Weird conventions, gun shows, Christian rock festivals, etc. Where are the citizens of Sacramento going for bigger events? Somewhere outside of the city I presume, and will performers be looking to schedule additional dates in Sacramento or just stick with the current model? There’s a lot to ask about this prospect.
But I also don’t want to come out as a high-minded jerk acting like I know what’s best for a city I don’t live in. I’m just skeptical is all.
It will be an economic revitalization the issue is that it will cause problems in some other area where that money would have been spent. That is why the Seattle Arena will be a plus for Seattle (and should pay for it) but probably not great for Bellevue, Lynnwood and Tukwilla
And that is something i would have to accept regardless if this arena plan happens and the arena is built or not.
They’ve been trying to redevelop the area around the Rose Quarter for 15 years, and its been no dice. And this in a City that has had a TON of redevelopment during that time.
The idea that an arena acts as an economic catalyst is a myth. In reality, its a massive drain. Portland was lucky enough to have Paul Allen build the Rose Garden while only chipping in for infrastructure improvements and parking garages. If the Kings move to Seattle, it may work out better for that City in the long run that they were able to get this sweet deal from Hansen, as painful as losing the team was.
Honestly if you think about it KJ has lied( or misleading if you want to be nice about it) a lot in this process so far. He is lying about the economic impact because there is many studies and economist that say otherwise about these projects when the cities are flipping most the bill. He lied when he said there would be local owners (his 25 guppies arent in the Mastrov group) they are attempting acquire the 7% in auction or buy it out. Quite frankly he misled on his announcements for the whales. He has misled them alot in this process, it makes you wonder why their city council wholeheartedly trusts him that he is getting a good deal for the city. Just my two cents and is a huge talking point with my uncle and his immediate family in Sacramento.
Seems like a lot of wishful thinking. KJ has talked a bigger game Han he’s able to timely back up. But I don’t think he’s lying. He feels the need to talk big and hope everything works out after the fact. And the Sac city council is in his pocket. 7-2 vote for just about anything he is going to try and pass. Foolish to think otherwise.
Oh BTW what Michael McCann said about April 3rd being the end game? He is absolutely correct. No way the BoG is going to let this be the main issue at their annual meetings. The decision will be rendered around the 3rd (probably not public at that time but may be some leaks) and then it will be about getting the owners to fall in line so it is a 28-2 or 29-1 type thing with the Warriors Owner probably voting no on the sale and relocation so the Sacramento fan base can like him for it and score brownie points in an attempt to lure the average fan to his side. He will want to vote yes to clear his Northern California market but from a “political” stand point will vote no.
Remember Mark Cuban may not be the voice of the owners but he did say that he feels that no one would say “no” to the NBA returning to Seattle. Especially when Cuban had to have known somewhat that this is what the league was working on when he made those comments. They are almost all in cahoots with eachother and maybe was giving a public thumbs up to Hansen to go for the deal with the Maloofs. We shall see
Dan Lewis @DanLewisNews 8m
Seattle Sports Commission confirms to KOMO that it will enter into “informal” discussions for “possible” bid for 2024 summer Olympics.
Oh I know that he has them in his pocket but I’m surprised more people are not upset about him having the council in his pocket. Believe me there are a ton of people who think that contributing this much money is a mistake down there. Mainly because of where the local economy is sitting and a lot of businesses jumping ship to Nevada, Utah, etc
Not sure Seattle could handle the Olympics. And a lot of people here wouldn’t want the hassle. Maybe if/when the arena gets built we could host a political convention, which I don’t think has ever happened here before.
It’s not really any of our business whether or not KJ is lying to people. Maybe he is, but so do most politicians and public figures. If people there ever get fed up with him they could try to overturn whatever arena deal gets passed or try to get him recalled, but that’s there business. He’s already been reelected.
Curious to know what the are gonna do about the track and field event since husky stadium doesn’t have its track anymore
LOL can you just picture the ILWU suing over the Olympics cause it will hurt and kill port jobs.
or so they claim.
Stern said that he wasn’t concerned about getting the Maloofs to take the Sacramento offer if the BOG rejected the Hansen PSA and relocation. As long as the money to the Maloofs is the same and within the same timing, I do think that Stern and the NBA “have their way” of showing the Maloofs why it is in their best interest to do as Stern and the NBA say. Stern said that at the March 4 Warrior game when asked.
Miami Heat WILL NOT break the Lakers record streak. They will lose soon. Too many teams want to take them down and Cavs almost did it tonight. No, they are vulnerable and no way the make it to 34.
Good one :-)
Yea that was the first thing that came to mind regarding seattle possible biding for the summer games.
How would the MaGoof’s get screwed if they pocket the same $$ ? As Sac fans contend they want to screw KJ & the City. I would think @ this point the MaGoof’s just want to be paid as much as they can get. No owner would ever vote to reject a financially solid PSA to force the MaGoof’s or any selling owner to take a lower offer. They would be shorting their own pockets now and in the future when they want to sell their own team. 100% guarantee that will never happen. In addition, Stern/NBA know that action would result in a reasonable and rightful lawsuit
The Mastrov deal has to be equal to Hansen’s deal as far as the MaGoof’s are concerned. The NBA owners will demand that.
Now, if Mastrov’s bid is equal to Hansen’s as far as the MaGoof’s payment and Burkle/Sac can get the Arena financing truly completed. Well, that’s where it could get a little more complicated and might give the NBA pause for consideration. Approving the Hansen PSA/reloc will be a much tougher sell to the Public and current NBA and prospective cities willing to subsidize the NBA with Arenas they now demand. Yes, I know, I know - - - Hansen has the wealthier ownership group and a binding PSA w/$30mil downpayment, and Sea’s larger & more lucrative market.
The two issues that are in Sac’s favor IF, and yes a huge IF, they truly have an equal offer:
1) Don’t want to risk the public PR nightmare of relocation to current and prospective NBA cities that are willing to financially support an Arena.
2) Sac has and continues to be incredibly cooperative with the NBA over the last several years to solve their Arena issue with public subsidy. A new local financially sound ownership group promising to keep the Kings in Sac.
The 2 points above are the only issues that give me some pause for thought. The comment Stern made regarding when an owner choosing to exit the league will not be able to dictate where that team goes. I do think Stern holds immense power to control the BOG/reloc vote.
My personal View: Sac cannot & will not make an equal offer. I think we will know this very, very soon. The April 19th vote will be nothing more than an already known formality.
Its going to be a PR nightmare if they reject the kings sale to Hansen more so than approving the sale of the kings and allowing them to relocate.
The olympics man there were some rumores that Seattle would try to bid with vancouver a while back that is somewhat impossible the owny big problem with Seattle Oympis bid is where are they going to build the oympic Stadium other then that it would be a good way to get a lot of money spend quickly of transportation. Back to the Sonics yea it does not seem like they the BOG would have a meeting at all if they would not reach a conculsion the main thing is would they vote right their or not because even if they go out a say Seattle bid wins I have a feeling KJ will not quit untill they finally make it the move officall
Now, if Mastrov’s bid is equal to Hansen’s as far as the MaGoof’s payment and Burkle/Sac can get the Arena financing truly completed. Well, that’s where it could get a little more complicated and might give the NBA pause for consideration. Approving the Hansen PSA/reloc will be a much tougher sell to the Public and current NBA and prospective cities willing to subsidize the NBA with Arenas they now demand.
I’m not sure about that. They approved the Sonics move despite having two years left on the lease (which was truncated to begin with) of a publicly funded arena. And when the Kings moved to Sacramento and built an arena there without public money, they ignored a lucrative lease offer from Kansas City to stay.
I suppose what makes this a little different is you have KJ and his PR minions trumpeting the “It would be unprrrrrrrrrrrrecedentedddddd” line. I guess maybe they can convince enough people of that even if it’s not really true.
But that whole unprecedented line can go both ways. Its unprecedented for the NBA to vote down a sale of a franchise for something else other than financial issues. I hope KJ realizes that.
Been down to LA Live lately….?
I think using the word precedent v. unprecedented is not all its cracked to be. The NBA down the road doesnt have to use any of this as precedent or not. Simply in the end it could be an outlier to normal ways of doing things. None of this has to be a precedent or not. It could simply be the exception either way the board votes
Respectfully - - disagree. Only & only IF the Mastrov offer is equal. The NBA can trumpet and spin they have a “heart” and respect & honor a City who has always been cooperative & financially supportive with public $$.
The City of Sac has always been cooperative & financially supportive of the NBA. Seattle was not. I also think if Stern could turn back time, perhaps he might have handled the Sea sale/reloc differently. Not saying it would have changed the outcome, but he probably would have done everything possible to control the bad PR.
No way they can prevent a PR nightmare regardless of who gets the king it still be one.
I agree. This isn’t a court system. The NBA can do whatever it wants in this situation without regard to what it’s done in the past, and not worry about it in the future when a similar situation comes up. I’m just pointing out that KJ’s “it’d be unprecedented” argument isn’t really true. If it were the Kings would have stayed in Kansas City and Seattle probably would still have the Sonics.
I think you might be right, but at the same time, if you asked regular joe on the street in say…Chicago, New York, etc. that might loosely pay attention to the NBA. They probably just heard that the Kings were bought by Seattle and the Sonics are coming back. Maybe people aren’t diehard committed to the idea, but that seems to be what most lay people assume outside of the situation, so I think denying Seattle might actually be seen as the move more against the current than anything else.
I’ve heard more than one person say that if Mastov’s bid is “close” then the BOG could reject Hansen’s PSA, seeing value in keeping the team in its market.
Sounds good, unless you are the Maloofs getting screwed out of money.
To this point, the Sac bid has be very short. I’m not sure why I would expect an equal offer. If that’s what they thought was required then the would have just offered that the first time and not had to have Stern call them out in public.
The City of Sac has always been cooperative & financially supportive of the NBA. Seattle was not. I also think if Stern could turn back time, perhaps he might have handled the Sea sale/reloc differently. Not saying it would have changed the outcome, but he probably would have done everything possible to control the bad PR.
Disagree, Seattle has actually subsidized the NBA (the old Coliseum, the Kingdome, KeyArena) more than Sacramento has. In bolting prior to the end of the lease the NBA didn’t keep up it’s end of the bargain in exchange for the public money to build KeyArena. Sacramento has been supportive since the near move to Anaheim, but prior to that they had never subsidized an arena, and had many years of failed attempts. At least if the team moves they won’t have yet spent any public money, unlike Seattle. You could argue that what happened here is more of a warning against doing business with the league than what’s happening in Sacto.
Cmon Baker…they were just using the last four weeks before the decision (where they are scrambling) to try and “feel out” the NBA…I mean that totally makes senes…
It took two moths of hype and hoopla for them to get a joke of an offer into the league, I wont expect anything more from their arena
Big thing to remember AEG and NBA were originally going to give money to the Railyards project last go around, not this time. So they need to come up with the shortfall. Doubt Burkle would fill in the extra shortfall
Its 10:10 on a Wednesday Night do you know where your term sheet is?
Agreed. This will only be cared about with NBA fans.
He might, but that just means that he’ll expect more in return when it comes to arena revenues…revenues that will have to be split somehow with the city and the team owner. There’s only so much to go around. That’s the problem when you have a small market and investors that aren’t willing to invest for emotional reasons, but are looking for a return on their investment. I don’t see how all three partners will be able to make themselves whole with such a significant investment.
Yup, my thoughts exactly. Sac will not make an equal or even comparable bid.. It’s just not there. They knew the Hansen bid, and they chose not to play with the Big Boys.
Exactly - - it makes no financial sense. No equal bid is forthcoming.
They all wont be made whole and that is why the city is going to get screwed. Burkle and Mastrov arent gonna piss away money when they are the ones doing Sacramento a favor. Sacramento is the one needing help and Burkle and Mastrov are willing to help but its gonna cost the taxpayers A LOT of dough
Correct. There is a small pie out there for grabs, how are they going divvy it up? Will be interesting indeed
Apparently the BOG wasn’t impressed with the “feeling out” process.
If they think they can offer less and get the team then that’s what they will attempt to do. Unfortunately, the Maloofs would be the ones getting screwed.
We will see if they think they are negotiating with the NBA or realize that they have to offer the Maloofs an equal offer.
Ahhh… starting to feel some relief knowing we’re in the home stretch here. One way or another, for better or for worse; in less than a month, this will be over.
Yup, as I said. The MaGoof’s will not get screwed. The other owners will not force or want them to accept a lower offer because they will never want to be told to accept a lower when they choose to sell.. Lawsuit, Lawsuit, did I say Lawsuit ??
So KJ was at the Clippers and Sixers game on vacation. He is on vacation while the city is trying this last ditch effort seems a little odd for the mayor of the Sacramento Kings to be vacationing during the final hours of the all important term sheet
Mastrov & Burkle are not stupid or without counsel. - - they know how this game works and they knew what they needed to offer. That’s the part I can’t figure out - - - Why did they make that offer ??? Perhaps to make sure they stay in the public conversation ?
Burkle lives in LA. That’s one reason possibly. Maybe to mend fences with AEG in some way moving forward. Either way, it doesn’t make a difference. The term sheet being announced really has little to do with KJ as it’s John Shirey and John Dangberg, who are both in Sacramento, who are doing the negotiating.
Really, it makes no difference if KJ were on the moon tonight as far as the term sheet goes. He’s nothing more or less than a public cheerleader and face of the project. He’s not the guy making the numbers work or figuring out the fine print. That’s not KJ’s job, nor was it ever going to be.
Oh I know you just think he may want to be there for all the hoopla once announced
Why does KJ have to be in Sac or at the Town Hall meetings? Those are about the residents, not specific politicians.
What is the view from your & Sac’s seat regarding the non-considerable bid Mastrov made ? They knew the Hansen bid. Do you agree that the offer will need to be equal for the MaGoof’s pockets? Would you agree that no owner is going to force a selling owner to accept a lower bid ?
Because this is his baby and no city would go to these lengths in a last ditch effort that didn’t have him as mayor. I just figured he would want to be there when this key issue is somewhat resolved for Sacramento
some thoughts:
-NHL is now in a holding pattern (re: Phoenix), they’ll land when this thing with the NBA in Seattle is settled. The NHL doesn’t want to lose another American market and can jack way up two Canadian expansion fees.
-the NFL is the only league, I believe, that has the ability hold a market as leverage in perpetuity (re: LA). If this deal falls through, non-freaks here in Seattle who are excited about the NBA’s return, will flip and the NBA will be mostly dead. I don’t know how a league like the NBA can possibly say “NO” to moneybags Microsoft, and yes to Sacramento’s emotion. Watch Sonicsgate again if you need to. You cannot say “NO” to a market like Seattle twice, you can, however, always say no once.
Steve Ballmer has (I presume), followed a very specific, NBA-if-you-wanna-join-the-owners-club-political/social process since at least 2008 (again, watch Sonicsgate - Stern went about getting a person he owed a team to, Clay Bennett, the wrong way.He’s getting Ballmer in the opposite way, he has to). He (Ballmer) didn’t go away, he maintained his relationships and finally got the right dance partner in Hansen. I can see the same thing happening with Sacramento right now, only it’s much easier to get an arena going when you have the momentum (political will) to, even if the Kings are out the door anyway. Sacramento *could be* set up as the next Seattle…and Mastrov and or Berkle have yet to follow Ballmer’s process, they’re just getting started on that path.
-From the renderings of the new Sonics Arena, don’t you think the sonics rings are a part of the next evolution of **revenue generating/fan experience at arenas across north america? Don’t you think the NBA covets Hansen’s vision and ingenuity in what’s going to be offered in the new arena (uh, pocket suites)? ALL the owners will want something like that, even in Milwau….ahem……
When you add everything about the Seattle bid up, and use common sense, I just don’t see how the NBA is going to say no - and Im not trying to be cocky.
Finally, I know there’s been some talk on Sonics Rising about the Sounders/MLS…I dont buy the “this town is too loaded with major sports” argument. I think the fact the Sounders have been a huge success in a town with MLB, NFL, and major college fooball/basketball speaks volumes. Do not under estimate the Sounders game day experience and the impact it has made on Chris Hansen and the thought process behind the experience before, during, and after a game at the new Sonics Arena…and do not under estimate the impact it has made with David Stern either:
“The Seattle Sounders are the most successful expansion team in the history of sports” - NBA commissioner David Stern to owner Joe Roth 12/13/11, via SSFC official twitter
Seattle is an evolutionary market. NBA wants back in.
I’ve been reading through this thread and I’ve seen a lot of the back and forth. I didn’t want to jump in on it, but mostly I don’t think it matters. I think Mastrov and Burkle were likely feeling out Stern’s and the BOG’s feeling towards them and the bid. If the NBA responded positively in their view, they would continue negotiating with the city and up the bid. If not, pull back and pretend they were doing more than they really were.
So let me basically state how I see the situation simply from Sac’s end.
They must A) have that subsidy remain on the table. Which, from their end, they maintain is intact. The term sheet will be released about 13 hours from now (it’s supposed to be released at 1 or 2 pm for review by the public before the town hall meeting-good luck getting any of those people at that meeting to read it other than Kings fans though) if all goes according to plan (which I suspect it is).
B) The bid from Mastrov and Burkle must put the same amount of money in the Maloofs pockets. As much as the NBA does not like the Maloof family (and they really don’t like them for so many reasons that if I listed them all your eyes would cross and you become Quasimoto somewhere around the same time you finished the list), they don’t like owners losing less money on a sale a whole lot more. At the end of the day, as many people here and StR are saying, this is a business deal. Business deals are always about money. And well, that’s what makes me believe that expansion is on the table. Anyways….
I think I answered your question. :)
BINGO
Er… ’cause that’s what he was elected as Mayor to do, perhaps? Stand around and look important at events like that? :-)
You say it has to net the Maloofs the same amount which makes sense but doesnt it have to keep the team valuation at its peak (which is where the Hansen bid is). Part of the high valuation is the moveability of the team IMO and if they deny the Hansen offer (relocation essentially) then Mastrov can re bid at a lower rate knowing that the team wont be moved.
Excellent arguments Stern has to argue for expansion IMO. Gamedays for Sounders games are impressive.
One thing on the “youve got Burkle” discourse. Its well known that Burkle is a spreadsheet exchange guy…..isnt it logical to assume that comment is made by Stern as to saying “how the hell did you get him to open up” more so than “oh wow you got Burkle hell yeah.”
Actually in a city with a weak mayor system like Sacramento, that’s kind of exactly what he’s supposed to do. The city manager is supposed to do most of the hard work.
“The Seattle Sounders are the most successful expansion team in the history of sports” – NBA commissioner David Stern to owner Joe Roth 12/13/11, via SSFC official twitter
I had never read that quote before. That’s fantastic!
The Sounders are insane. I grew up in Seattle, but I left before they came and it’s one of the things I’m really sad I missed.
I remember seeing that quote. I don’t know if that statement is actually accurate (didn’t the Bucks win the NBA championship in their third season?), but I thought to myself “see, David, what can happen when you have ownership that tries a bit?”
Thank you. Certainly I know that no one from Sac wants to hear “sympathy” from Sea. On this one point - I don’t care. Let’s just put it this way - No sports fan/City ever deserves a MaGoof as an owner. One way or another, they are GONE !!
Respectfully, I can’t agree with you on the “feeling out” the NBA
Thank you. Even though I know Sac does not want to hear “sympathy” from Sea. I will just say this: No sports fan ever deserves owners like the MaGoof’s.
Ok - - I can’t agree with you about Mastrov “feeling out” the NBA and their response to the bid. With all due respect, I find that comment either naive,or denial. As I said earlier, Mastrov & Burkle are not stupid businessmen and they were not without counsel. They knew the Hansen bid. If I remember correctly, Burkle met with Stern and their has been ongoing conversation between them. Burkle has even played this game before. It is a Big Boy’s Club. So, for me, “feeling out” the NBA just makes no sense to me. If I want to buy a car and I know someone has made a $20k offer on it, I’m not going to offer $15k on it and expect the seller to take me seriously. In a sense that’s what Stern said. It won’t even be considered. Sorry, no matter how fairly I try to analyze it - the Mastrov offer doesn’t make any sense.
I’m still mystified why it took the MLS so long to expand to Seattle. Putting an MLS soccer franchise in Seattle was even more of a slam dunk (or empty net goal) than returning the Sonics to Seattle. I remember crowds of 40,000 in the Kingdome to watch the old NASL Sounders — and this was in 1977, before all the hoopla over the World Cup in 1994, Women’s World Cup in 1999, etc. Once the Seahawks’ stadium was built, the Sounders were a guaranteed market success and had a stadium to play in (or they could’ve played in Husky Stadium and still been a success). But it took the MLS, what, a dozen years before they expanded to Seattle? Think of all the revenue they could’ve collected.
The women’s WUSA and WPS leagues also missed out by leaving out Seattle. The NWSL is smart to have the Seattle Reign as one of their founding teams.
This is exactly what’s freaking me out. That offer made no sense. None. At least none that I can figure out. And I believe he’s a serious guy, and he’s had experience with NBA bidding before, so I have to believe he had a plan. It scares me that I can’t figure out what the fuck it was.
Moderation so I’m just gonna try again rather than wait.
This is exactly what’s freaking me out. That offer made no sense. None. At least none that I can figure out. And I believe he’s a serious guy, and he’s had experience with NBA bidding before, so I have to believe he had a plan. It scares me that I can’t figure out what the fuck it was.
It makes sense if he was never going to really go for it. If he put in a lower bid then if gives him a out. Remember this is all for show. The deal is done.
Yeah, ok, but then why would he do it at all? What does Mastrov have to gain here? I get why Burkle is involved, he gets an arena with little cost to himself, and a bunch of other property to develop, just like he got in Pittsburgh. But what does Mastrov get? To be a guy who bid on two NBA franchises and got neither? He’s not from Sacramento, so it’s not an emotional thing. What’s his angle if he never believed he could actually get it done?
Touche - - nice point. Yes, getting in bed with the NBA can be devil’s play. Here we are today and since Anaheim, Sac is willing to support the Devil’s lair.
I have no idea what Hansen’s offer is. A valuation could mean a lot of things couldn’t it? The purchase price and what Hansen’s offer is ultimately what will put dollars in the Maloofs pockets, not the valuation. So to me the valuation is worthless. The 525 million pricetag certainly grabs eyeballs, but there’s been nothing to assure me that that’s been the actual price Hansen is purchasing the franchise.
So, again, what matters is what puts the money in the Maloof pockets. Everything else is rhetoric designed to pull one side into one’s POV vs the other POV and so on and so forth. A great example of this is what Think Big released about the Sac vs Seattle markets. That was entirely irrelevant to the discussion, and Kunal Merchant (KJ’s right hand man) knows that very well mind you. But this is politics, and anytime you are discussing politics the game changes. There are a lot of people who think that part of winning the war so to speak is to win the media game in a specific kind of way. A specific kind of way that makes it clear how valuable Sac is to the league. I don’t see it changing the NBA’s mind at all, but it could give the league idea’s that it chooses to piggyback off of if they do seriously consider expansion for instance.
Step back and a more interesting picture emerges: Why isn’t both cities part of the long term NBA future?
If the best argument you can make is that the Kings should have stayed in Kansas City, me thinks you don’t know the history of the franchise there. Or the fact that the franchise was only there 13 years to begin with. Or that the franchise didn’t start in Cincinnati either. Which is inherently the problem I think. The NBA knows that, knows part of the business side of the NBA brand is longevity and brand loyalty in a particular market. A lot of NBA markets are dependent on the player personalities. Sacramento traditionally has not.
I’ve yet to see a real concrete answer to that. For every argument you can make against expansion (which almost always harkens back to what Stern says publicly on the discussion), I can make one opposite. It’s not because I’m hoping here. When the Maloofs announced they were going to Anaheim, I really thought they were gone. It turns out that was hardly the case, but I didn’t know that at the time. Since then, you routinely hear that the team was just “this” close to moving to Anaheim even though there wasn’t a prayer’s chance in hell of it happening. Again, that’s politics.
Part of the reason you see the Sac media blitz (like Dave’s media tour) is because the general public see’s this as a slam dunk for Seattle no doubt about it type thing. The NBA almost certainly doesn’t see it that way with what it’s at stake in both cities, but the casual fan A) doesn’t care for public subsidy’s of facilities and B) doesn’t care about markets it has no real interest or desire to know anything about.
One of the real problems Sacramento has is a lot of outsiders see it as the “Capitol City” of California. That’s not really a big deal as being the state capitol of the 7th largest economy even if it renders you on a different status level than say state capitols like Eugene, Carson City and Olympia. But that’s my point too: Austin is the state capitol of a large economy in Texas, but is known for many other things besides being the capitol. Strangely enough, despite being important for a lot of reasons other than the capitol the city doesn’t get it’s due and the business interests here are tired of sucking hind tit compared to the massive bureaucratic presence the city has. There are numerous other things about living here that are significantly more important (being the hub of the most important agricultural region in the world for starters) than the state capitol.
Boston, Atlanta, Phoenix, OKC, Denver, St Paul and SLC are state capitols. How many people care that they are?
Which is one reason you see such a heavy blitz in the media, silly Sac vs Seatown comparisons that mean jack diddly squat (and worse the people doing it know that), and well, this is pretty much what it is. Every day that goes by that the Sac media, or guys like Dave who is a media personality that can make the argument about how Sacramento really does work for the NBA, well, it’s not hard to see how this is going to go.
The Mastrov Burkle bid can be there if they want it to be, and my feeling has always been if they bid, and a term sheet gets released, they want to buy a NBA team and have it here. I have that feeling as I type this.
Heh. These town hall meetings are politicians covering their butt. We all know it. I don’t know why it matters, but I really want to go to the Town Hall meeting tomorrow and the one somewhat close to my house on Saturday. Just to see what gets said. It’s going to get funny in there I know that.
Maybe he does it to help KJ save face. Maybe he isn’t really working to get the Kings but a new team in Sac after they move to Seattle. Why the low bid because what Hansen is paying is to much for Sac and he knows that the team is not worth that in the market. I will be glad when this is over.
Exactly - - that’s what I can’t figure out. What was the point ? What’s he getting out of this. Yeah, I know these guys are rich. But, this bid costs time, legal expenses, etc. They didn’t spend time & money for no reason. Someone posted earlier that it could perhaps be grooming, training, club initiation. to rub elbows with members of the exclusive “Club” in preparation for future “serious consideration”.
EVERY purchase is done with some emotion. …since he isn’t from Sactown his is possibly: pride of ownership, ego stroke of being in the club, or desire to win and be a hero. Just not a hometown hero in his case.
Yes, exactly. And perhaps that’s right, but I would think he already did that with the Warriors bid. And, as much as I love Sacramento (and I really do, it’s a great city in it’s own way), I don’t really see the NBA coming back there if they leave. There’s a reason the A’s said no, and no other league is trying to be there, not even MLS. As many have said here, their big business is government and government doesn’t have any money. Plus they are already saturated with Bay Area sports.
Maybe he wants a team somewhere else, but where? He’s a Bay Area guy and the league isn’t gonna put another team here, it would make absolutely no sense. Even if they were willing to go to San Jose, and I don’t think they would be, that would go to Ellison who has roughly 2893823728937289 times as much money as Mastrov.
It just makes no sense to me.
Sure, but all of those assume he believes this can be done. And if that’s the case why offer so little? It’s a circular staircase and I have no idea where it leads.
” Mastrov/Burkle can bid & if they do bid” ?? They already did. You don’t know what Hansen bid is ? Mmmm, I think that’s been pretty widely reported - - that’s what gave the team the valuation. Does the reported $340mill for 65% of the team ring a bell ? Or something like that.
I have to think that the Sacramento investors are going through some sort of grooming ala Steve Ballmer in 07/08, only in this situation and unlike Seattle, there’s significant *political* momentum for a new downtown arena for a future team in Sacramento. I believe that Stern said something to the effect of this needing to be done “regionally.” So, get something out of Sacramento now (binding even), then get the rest of the Government partners (county or counties for example) later, ala the current Hansen arena plan.
The whole thing, from the Sonics move and grooming of Ballmer up to the whole, current arena deal, financing, set up in Seattle…that could be history repeating itself in Sacramento - and while I think the current Kings are gone, there’s no reason to stop with the arena progress now for a future Kings team.
I really can’t imagine smart guys like Berkle and Mastrov assembling something sloppy and frankenstein’d for something now when there’s a much bigger picture for them in Sacramento in the next 3-5 years, which includes taking advantage of an arena deal assembled now.
or, on the other hand…the Mastrov/Berkle simply is what it is and that’s it, that’s all and the NBA is done for good in Sacramento…
Kingsguru you are missing the point. The Maloofs have agreed to Hansen we know this you know this. The second Hansen would be denied then all of sudden the Maloofs have an agreement with no one. Hansen has been denied and is out. Why would Mastrov pay the price Hansen is paying? Mastrov has nothing agreed to with the Maloofs. So Mastrov pulls that bid and comes in with a lower figure because why would he pay the price of the Kings on what it would be worth in a larger market? You dont think that thought hasnt crossed the Maloofs minds?
Anything that Mastrov has offered means very little. The second it comes down the pipe that Hansen has been denied then the whole world knows that the team is not moving thus lowering some of the value. So the Maloofs sell for less money because they have lost that leverage. Then sure the NBA for tampering.
Mastrov knew where the bid had to be at and he low balled. Why, probably because he is using it in negotiations with the city of Sacramento to get more money towards the arena. I dont know where you can deny that the valuation is at least around 525 million. No it hasnt been confirmed because there is a gag order on teh involved parties but Mastrov knew the price and at least had to come close and came in between 80-100 million short. Why would he do that knowing there is no time to play around with the BoG
i know you already answered the final question so no need to re hash
Maybe he bid less for exactly the reason you mention at the top. Maybe he knows that if the NBA blocks the sale they are gonna pressure the Maloofs to take the local offer, and that whatever offer he has sent to the NBA would be expected to be the offer he would have to keep. And maybe he believes that there are other reasons the NBA would deny the sale that are not tied to an equal purchase price in Sacramento, no idea what those would be but just go with me for a second. In that case, maybe he bid what he thinks the team is realistically worth in Sacramento, hoped that the NBA would deny the Hansen deal for whatever unrelated reason, and then he gets the team for a reasonable price.
I know that’s a lot of if’s and maybe’s, but I’m grasping at straws here.
Yes. If Hansen PSA/reloc is approved, and then Sac decides not to build an Arena without an anchor tenant — - then the NBA won’t return. They will need to copy the Hansen blueprint - - no Arena built until a team is acquired.
Actually, I think you make a good point. Can’t even begin to imagine what unrelated reasons could be for rejecting the Hansen deal. But, if there was a reason - then Mastrov gets the team at a more true market value. The MaGoof’s would be gone - NBA is happy, Sac is happy. But, for the life of me - - - I can’t even remotely imagine what could be unacceptable about the Hansen bid. I do believe the NBA has been assisting the Hansen Group on what they needed to do to get back in the “Club”. Hence, all the quietly purchased SODO property acquisitions by Hansen long before the public knew. Nah - - we’re reaching way too far !!
Yep. This is why my friends think I’m being ridiculous. They say it’s a done deal and the only thing that could kill it is something truly scandalous or unexpected. But I live in SF now, and none of my friends have been through what we went through with the NBA. It’s made us all extremely skeptical about this to begin with, and then with all the weird moves David Stern has made with regard to letting other “bids” be sent, and all these chances, it’s pushed us way over the edge into paranoia.
Logically, stepping outside my Seattleness, I can see that this is almost certainly a done deal. But, as a Seattleite, I can’t help be terrified that this is all somehow gonna be pulled out from under us at the last moment, and in the most painful way possible. It’s just what I’ve been trained to expect.
Maybe there isnt anything wrong with the Hansen bid but is following Emperor Stern’s orders to be next in line.
Ive seen alot of people in Sacramento say that this is their only shot and they will never get another team. where have I heard that before? If they are as strong as a market for the NBA as they claim then why wouldnt the NBA return under a different set of circumstances. It may not make sense now to the people of Sacramento but it may in the long run. Hell it may a whole lot less sense in 2008 and it happened. Maybe there isnt a reason and its all for show to be the next in line just like Ballmer. Makes about as much sense as anything else. Like I said if Sacramento is a strong market for the NBA , like they say it is, then why couldnt they get another team. Sure they have to have the chips in place just like Seattle but the precedent would be quite clear.
I know a lot of people here are only capable of seeing things through green and gold colored glasses. But I want to thank you, Kingsguru, for your imput and overall class and tact you’ve brought. We’ve had a handful of Kings fans come here with the intent on setting us straight. And just as it goes on your site, such an approach is never well received. I know you guys usually take it as arrogance when we say that we feel bad for you, but I genuinely do. Especially when I read a fan such as yourself approach the situation with a level head and say a lot of things I could see myself saying in the same shoes. Whatever happens on this, it really sucks that good fans are going to get the short end.
It’s easy for us Seattle fans to zero in on Carbunkle Dave making suicide and having sex with your mother jokes, or Aaron Bruski abusing his post as a national NBA writer to spew nothing but pro Sac views as “news”, and use that as a reason to not feel bad about what might happen. Just the same as it’s easy for Sac fans to tell themselves that the few Seattle fans that troll their sites represent the city on the whole. It’s sports fan 101. You hate your enemy. Your enemy is everything you dispise. I hate the San Francisco 49ers. Therefore all 49er fans a pieces of crap. (Side note. Having attended a Niner game in SF, I gotta disagree with my choice of example here. LOTS of pieces of crap Niner fans. Sorry. Whoops.)
Anyway, my point is we live in this Fox News/Skip Bayless, “I’m right, you’re beyond retarded and wrong. How on Earth are you alive and so stupid?” society. It’s how we’re conditioned to think. We as a people today live on the internet doing nothing but seeking out safe havens of group-think where we can do nothing but incestually circle jerk amongst those who think exactly as we do. Politics, religion, sports, whatever your fancy. We’ve become so polarized as a people, and so intolerant in general, that we simply do not have time for differing opinion or perspective. So again, sorry that you don’t always get a welcoming response.
I gotta say that I don’t exactly agree with you on everything. But it’s mostly due to my perspective vs yours. You probably look at us and say, “Seattle fans don’t understand what we’ve been through. They don’t get that we’ve been here before. And it came out in our favor.” And I along with all my Seattle bretheren look at this as “You guys don’t realize the reality of this. We’ve been here before and seen first hand just how brutal it can be.” It’s really as simple as that.
Neither of us have a real clue what’s going on behind the scenes. For all the “Expansion is NOT an option!” and “The NBA won’t turn it’s back on a market willing to bend over backward for it!” we repeat, at the end of the day, we’re all on the outside looking in. We all are doing nothing but guessing. A lot of wishful, hopeful guessing. We all desperately want to think we know what’s going on. And as both of our sites prove on a daily basis, we’ll go way out of our way to rationalize to ourselves why and how this is the case. But in reality none of us know anything other than the fact that if we’re genuninely honest with ourselves, we’re all viewing this through EXTREMELY biased and wishful goggles. Sac fans avoided Anaheim and thusly feel they can win again. Seattle fans lost and were crushed by Clay Bennett and OKC, and are jaded as hell regarding the NBA caring about a city or fan base. We each have experienced radically different encounters when it comes to NBA relocation. And sadly, there is no bridging the gap when it comes to this. Not now when the stakes remain so huge.
So I’ve babbled a whole helluva lot here, mainly just to say, Kingsguru, we might be on different sides of this stupid war neither of us started or control. But you and I are one in the same. I really hate that. I really would love if we could get an expansion team, and you guys keep yours. Not sure how realistic that is. But please believe me that I and most of my Seattle friends feel this way. Best of luck with whatever happens.
REALLY? SERIOUSLY? Moderation?! Aaaaaahhhh!
Can’t wait til we join SB Nation. ;)
It’s over.. It’s been over.
13 days to April 3! It is going to come down to the presentations on April 3. If Sacramento submits a competitive and very tight package (t’s crossed, i’s dotted), and they have an excellent presentation, then it will come down to the vote April 18/19 at the BOG meeting. If Sacramento basically ups their bid and yet still has a bunch of unknowns and projections and assumptions, and Chris Hansen blows them away with his presentation and where he is in terms of the Seattle market and arena and fans, then it will be over on April 3 (still voted on the 18/19, just door closed to Sacramento and any addition info after April 3).
Stern knows he’s given Sacramento a lot of his energy, support, and second chances these past four to five years and he was clear about April 3. Stern speaks in “shades of gray” (description by Colin Cowherd) and the truth has come out in his conferences. If Sacramento can meet/best the Hansen bid (and presentation), then the Kings have an excellent chance of staying in Sacramento. If they do not, then Stern will advise the BOG to approve the Hansen PSA/relocation.
Aw, what? I love that guy’s stuff. Intriguing…
Even if they come close to the Hansen group offer . . . the truth is that Burkle cannot be a part of the ownership group in order to sell to the Maloofs because of Maloofs have a grudge against Burkle. Mastrov and ther partners better be a really good, strong group because they will be unable to maintain the team. Mastrov simply does not have enough net wealth to maintain a team in Sacramento. If there is anything not right with that group Mastrov has put together, the NBA will reject them like they have done in the past.
So, then what happens?
I just saw at a rendering of the potential arena in Sactamento. I guess I am not sure that as a business person that I would like that so close to my business. There could be many times when you might as well just close your doors. Probably the only businesses that would really make the $$$ would be restaurants and bars. I guess they are hoping for downtown revitalization. Maybe this will help, but usually it is high end business that revitalizes a downtown area . . . or at least some large corporations who decide to put in large offices in the downtown.
That’s exactly the problem. Large corporations have their complete lot to choose for office space. There is tons of it available in the Sac area. They don’t have to choose DT Sac to go.
DT revitalization is exactly how this project is being sold locally in Sac. And, if it goes through, will dramatically alter the landscape of DT Sac for the better IMO. This is not DT Seattle or SF we are talking about here.
I was reading some comments on a Sacramento where a Kings fan living in OKC was lamenting that there isn’t a Costco there. I didn’t think that there wasn’t a state that didn’t have a Costco.
I thought it was so kind of funny that there was a discussion involving a Kings fan in OKC talking aobut bad it is to not have a large Seattle corporation in their state.
It really depends on what the city will give Burkle in terms of the extra land and the tax breaks that could be associated with that. If that part of the deal helps to get people coming and then get some other places close by to get some business then I could see it being a good thing. The only problem is recent success in districts like this is mixed at best. Just look at the Power and Light district in KC. Yeah the arena makes money, but the area around that got significant tax benefits doesn’t generate enough money to cover a third of the debt services. LA live is sort of the anomaly because the Staples center is one of the few arenas that host 300 events a year, so it is quite easy to make money off of that many people being there. Mr. Hansen’s proposed “Seattle Live” will be on his land so it basically a completely different idea as what Sac is proposing. I think downtown arenas are the best option and I hope Sac gets one but I do get wary when people just say that this will spur on development and turn the economy around.
I am sure they have Sam’s Club…I refuse to go to one, but I bet they are there.
Yeah, I am sure they do, but we have a Costco here in the Tri-Cities with a second one coming with the rumor of a Sam’s Club coming as well. I can understand why they would have a Sam’s Club with Arkansas being next door. Walmart headquarters is almost on the state line between AR and OK.
Where did you see this rendering?
https://twitter.com/BMayNews10/status/314542280839147520
https://twitter.com/BMayNews10/status/314543546545876992
https://twitter.com/BMayNews10/status/314543843053809664
These are from 2004 but the city just wanted something up for the term sheet discussion. It’s not very likely to be the final drawing more or less. The NBA doesn’t care about that though. People just like images more or less.
StR in the comments section. It is one for 2004 but it is what they are using currently according to what was posted.
Is that an opaque roof?
They don’t have Costco’s in the Dakota’s, Wyoming, Arkansas, Louisiana, MIssissippi, Nebraska, Maine or West Virginia either.
http://www.priceviewer.com/costco_locations/
The more things you know…..
So, what time is this sheet thing supposed to happen today? Pretty vague on the time frame.
And will the term sheet cover how they plan to pay for the land that they don’t own yet?
No clue. I also don’t care. I want to see what the final drawings are. Not drawings from a company not currently on the project that were rendered nearly a decade ago.
2pm I think. I forget. It’s a few hours before the town hall meeting.
I lied. This is from 2010 not 2004. Again, want to see the final drawings before I really comment. A lot can change between now and when construction comes.
Thought Valparaiso would put up more of a fight
Wrong thread……
We need and edit button!
I love how there seems to be sacroyalty posters here. I was banned from there within the first few hours after a couple of pro seattle posts. I didn’t say anything bad at all, but guess I was gang flagged till I was banned. lol.
Ask them why you are banned. As far as I can tell, I’m the only person from StR who posts here (other than a few of TZ’s comments he made awhile ago).
So, who knows? It’s also how you present yourself too. Frankly, with how you converse with people at SBN threads, I would have banned you out of StR too. (Not SBN-NBA because it’s a general NBA site.) TZ, 214 and Akis have too much to do to worry about whether Seattle fans are being treated properly or not. If they don’t like it, you’re probably gone. Fair? No, but that’s the way that is. After this all calms down and you wish to go back, ask. Sites can ban and unban people. It’s happened to me a few different places (including StR).