Alright, we had some big, encouraging news last night from Oakland, courtesy of David Stern. Looking over the college games today there are a lot of guys we are interested in playing.
9am on ESPN Otto Porter and Georgetown are taking on Syracuse in their last ever Big East conference game. Going to be a lot of emotion in that one. Michael Carter-Williams is also playing in the game, but he’s seems to have fallen down our draft list quite a bit.
9am on CBS Florida is going to destroy Kentucky and knock them completely out of the tournament picture. No one on either team is really prime lottery material, but I bet Archie Goodwin and Ryan Harrow declare. Mostly because they’re going to lose their spots to James Young and Andrew Harrison the next season.
10:30am on WatchESPN is #13 Oklahoma State taking on #9 Kansas State. This is going to be another great matchup to see what type of game Marcus Smart really has. Last two times I’ve watched him he’s looked more like DeMarcus Cousins at the guard position. Too emotional, not enough control, not enough time on the floor. See how he does now.
3pm on ESPN is my number one overall pick, Ben McLemore, taking on Baylor.
3pm on ESPN3 is UNLV taking on Fresno State. Really like the potential of Anthony Bennett. Might be worth checking out if you are bored.
Locally at 11am on CBS UW is hosting UCLA with Shabazz Muhammad and Gonzaga plays Loyola-Marymount in the WCC tournament. This is Gonzaga’s first game as #1 and the game is on ESPN2 at 6pm.
Trey Burke, the guy I won’t shut up about, plays against #2 Indiana on CBS Sunday at 1pm.
There’s quite some basketball on today but being over here in Germany, it’s pretty tough to catch a lot currently.
ESPN America’s showing loads of World Baseball Classic and NHL, so there’s hardly any NCAA basketball on weekends.
Though, that will change pretty soon and especially during march madness.
CBS streams(for free) Florida @ Kentucky, so that’s something that would interest me.
http://www.cbssports.com/video/player/cbk-live
The Kings currently are also holding the 7th worst record of the league and given the records of other teams, they could finish the season anywhere from 4th to 11th worst.
Anyways, given that most have told their story, I’ll write some on my own.
Being born and raised in Germany(particularly East Germany), I started following basketball in 1992, when I watched the Dream Team.
After that, I started following the NBA, as there was a show about it once a week.
Then there was even a German dude doing well(And I don’t mean Christian Welp or Uwe Blab) and holding it’s own at the highest level in Detlef Schrempf.
So I started following him closer, which meant following the Supersonics in the early to mid 90′s even advancing to the NBA finals.
From there on, I was with the team and kept them as “my” team, even as they traded Kemp, signed McIlvane, drafted 21 feet of useless centers three years in a row and defined the word mediocre as the league certainly thought about renaming that #12 pick to The Sonics pick.
Being from Germany, I, of course, am a football(or soccer, how it’s called over there) fan and a passionate fan of Borussia Mönchengladbach. If you’re into football and like to experience everything you could(winning a cup, being relegated to the 2nd division, moving back up to the 1st divsion twice within a couple of years, fighting to avoid relegation but also making it to the CL qualifyiers within one year) doing so, then feel free to join. haha
We also have a nice connection to Seattle, as Kasey Keller once played for us and is still a highly regarded guy to everyone who likes the club. As we say, once a Boruss, always a Borusse and Kasey certainly fits that bill.
I also like college hoops(Gonzaga), Baseball(Red Sox, Cubs and Dodgers, just because of listening to Vin Scully) and Football(Eagles) to round things up.
*Once a Borusse, always a Borusse….
Somehow one of those e’s ran away :lol:
I’m really getting sold on Otto Porter, but then again I’ve always liked the top prospects that come out of Georgetown.
I want so badly to just talk about players. This whole situation is really nuts for me. I’m just not sure how to process it all.
“Locally at 11am on CBS UW is hosting UCLA with Shabazz Muhammad ”
Got tickets gonna be there.
This last comment from Mitch really didn’t do much to calm my nerves on the whole situation.
mitch levy @kjrmitch
I have no doubt that a revamped bid is coming. No choice for all of us but to just wait it out & see what they offer. #pinsandneedles
If there was a time travel service offered by someone, they’d make a killing off Sonics fans right now. I’m so sick of this process!!!!!!
I’m hoping I can get out of the office in time for the UW game. Beating UCLA is a great way to build momentum going into the conference tournament. I’m also pretty interested in Shabazz as a prospect, so it should be a fun game hopefully.
Ben McLemore has really grown on me the more I watch him. Reminds me a lot of Terrence Ross, which is absolutely a good thing. If Terrence was coming out this year, I probably wouldn’t take him first overall in this class, but I would be happy to use a top 3-5 pick on him. Same thing with Ben.
Who would you take first overall? Dude looks like a freak to me.
Honestly? I have no idea. Every prospect in this draft class has some pretty glaring flaws. Ben’s had an excellent year, but the truth is he does tend to disappear in late game situations, and he doesn’t have the ball handling ability to create his own shots. I’m just not sure if that’s the kind of guy I would want first overall.
Also, I’m not really sure why everyone has been so quick to judge the character of a guy like Shabazz, and say nothing about Ben. One of these guys didn’t celebrate a game winner in a way that satisfied people; the other has already been to jail once, and was forced to sit out all of last season due to poor grades. Do I think either guy has really done anything to cause much concern? Not at all. It’s very important to remember that we’re talking about kids, here. I just think it’s weird that one guy faces so much scrutiny, and another guy seems to be getting a pass for some reason.
Ultimately, I’m just glad I’m not the one who has to make what I’m sure will be a tough judgment call.
Off topic.
I don’t remember anyone bringing up the fact that Clay Bennet is on the hook to return a team to seattle within 5 years, or have to pay 30 million. Oh yea, he’s on the relocation committee. This has to be somewhat positive, no?
He doesn’t owe 30m anymore that was only if an arena plan was approved by end of 09
No kidding.
For my own 1% of uncertainty and just trying to take a fresh look at players, I’m mostly just going to absorb some college ball, looking at who are the top 5 by position, top 10 players overall. I figure that by the time April 3rd rolls around we will have either a much closer debate (1%) on ownership or it will be done with and we can move on.
After a remarkably good nights sleep I woke up thankful that the BOG rolled Stern out there to turn the Kleeg lights on the situation. A lowball offer helps nobody, except us. I know that the next stage of the CBA is coming and I’m pretty sure the owners are just not going to want to “grind it out”, as Mayor Johnson put it, at the meetings on April 18th and 19th.
So, we might as well enjoy the progress of our arena, and some exciting basketball, until we get clarification on April 3rd.
My guess is, the Sacramento group(s) are in full scramble mode this weekend to see if they can put an effort out there worth the BOG’s time. Unlike the Seattle side, I expect the rhetoric over the next 2 weeks from the Sacramento side to leak out where they really are at.
I’m pretty firmly in the camp that owners won’t vote against what another owner wants because that’s a harmful precedent. I also believe that owners don’t care about fan loyalty or sentiment.
But even leaving that aside, even if Sacramento gets more money rounded up, who would you vote for between a very well-funded, carefully presented, considered offer (that has been accepted by current owners) and a frantic group of lowballers who are short on organization? If you’re in a club that only has 30 members, which group would you want to have join that club?
And I’m also sorry for diverting the thread. College basketball is fine but there’s only one topic on my dangerously obsessed mind right now.
Did I just hear the CBS announcers refer to Shawn Kemp as “The Rainmaker”?
Yeah, team needs to get back here, now.
from last thread
I don’t see it coming to this but if it did, I would agree that Seattle would certainly get a second chance. BOG and Stern do not want to be thumbing their nose at Hansen/Ballmer and telling them it’s OK that you just lost $30 million.
Sacramento has a huge disavantage here. Essentially our bid is 525m (341 to maloof and other owner for 65% of team) + a relocation fee of the rumored 75m to the NBA.
Even if Mastrov could match hansen’s offerhow is he gonna counter that significant relocation fee the NBA is getting from Hansen?
Yeah…close I guess but gottleib is an okie
Here’s a thought: what if the whole Sac offer business is acknowledged by KJ, whales, and Stern to be a sham. They are just putting up this huge show to not lose major face in the public eye and are just pretending to give Sac a chance. Thus Stern and KJ already determined that a smaller offer had no chance whatsoever with the BOG, and they’re just making a lot of noise to declare the next winner of the NBA team musical chairs game. Thus Mastrov and Burkle know they have a very good shot next time around, they know this time is just for show. Thoughts?
I just can’t see Stern and Mastrov getting into it in public like they did .. this seems like such an amateurish way to do business - smells like a sham to me.
is gonna get if they approve the sale to seattle’s group.*
I thought about that scenario too speedcat and it would bring a lot of sense to the low ball bid and with the “Very animated” discussion that Stern and Mastrov had.
Except then you have kj wasting money on an arena plan an risking him getting into trouble with that whole thing. So unlikely. It could be that they are preparing to e next in line though
KJ just got re-elected last year with an overwhelming majority. If he’s going to burn a little political capital, now’s the time.
Here is another thought (look at us thinking), maybe the rumored $75 million relocation fee is a leftover number from what was thrown at the Maloofs when they were trying to go to Anaheim (relocation fee + paying the LA teams for encroaching on that media market). So, maybe that number isn’t $75 million, but a rumor that a lot of people believe.
Do any California taxes apply to that relocation fee? If so, it could be well over $75 million:-)
Are we able to post videos in the threads or just the links?
I must really be missing something with Shabaaz. I would not want my team to draft him as a lottery pick.
I wasn’t thinking political Capital but if he knows the bid is dead already and is spending taxpayer money to propagate a dead bid he could get in trouble
I don’t think so. Kevin said the other day he was going to work on getting us able to post pictures. Not sure if well be able to ever post videos. Must be tougher than just a couple of mouse clicks to do.
I do all of my surfing on an iPad, and it seems that this site switched over to a mobile version for me. Is there a way for me to access the non-mobile site?
They still need the arena to even have a chance at the next available team though.
KennewickKrunk, your avatar is … well I get the humor but it ain’t so nice to RGIII. I guess he has some blame in all this that happened but he also was doing what his coach told him to do. Plus as a player you have to expect he will go out and do his best, will never stop himself personally, will always wait until coach says it’s over, get off the field.
CMD is saying the offer was $80mil lower than Hansen Ballmer
I am often on a really crappy old version of Windows Mobile 6.5. I cannot even read threads with that phone any more. Didn’t want to mention it b/c everyone else seems to be having a good time with the new format, and Kev has done so much work on it, I know he tested a hell of a lot of devices, so he’s being very mobile-friendly. I don’t want any changes made on my behalf as I’m probably the only person in the world who would browse this site with such a crappy OS/browser.
speedcat, i like your thinking. this thing is multi-dimensional, wheels-within-wheels, stuff. sterno is never straightforward unless he has some reason to be. . . multiple agendas at work and it’s a lot more complicated than city/tycoon A vs. city/tycoon B.
that would make sense, that falls into the realm of “not comparable”
Every time CMD opens his mouth, I don’t know whether to offer him a breath mint or TOILET PAPER! Just sayin’…….
80m is a lot of money to be off by.
If that is accurate, Hansen is really spending cash. I mean 525 (341) for the team. 77 mill to sac to pay off loan, poss 75 mil relocation fee. thats 500 million just to get team here and own 65%. Then 300 mill for stadium, plus his fund is faltering. Is it even possible he folds?
maybe he’ll throw in a free gym membership
And? Guess I was sick of the non stop EaStPN media train kissing his ass. Wison should have won ROY, and that’s all there is to it. I happen to like it. Funny how when manning won it, it was based off the most rookie td’s in a year, just like wilson tying that, but it didn’t matter this go around. It wouldn’t have mattered if Wilson had 50 td’s. The pundits had a hard on for IR3 from the get go.
Why do some of my replies, or comments say it was posted, yet it’s not?
He folds being mastrov? or Hansen folding?
Moderated post i guess i think they change it where you don’t see the post yourself if its moderated.
Hansen will not be responsible for the entire loan, unless his group gets 100% of the team. This is true too of the relocation fee. Those minority owners are in for some major cash calls in the near future. This could be another Hansen strategy to get them to sell… here, you owe us 11% of $75 mil + $77 mil = $17 million. Or you can just sell us your 11% share for $58 million. Your choice.
Because I thought Wilson should have won the ROY period. EaStPN, and its pundits had a boner for IR3 all year long, so it was obvious the prom queen was going to win it. If someone wins alot of other awards first, might as well pile em all on, right?
I believe Mitch said something to the effect of Chris Hansen having “a couple of bullets in his chamber and why fire them now if he doesn’t have to.” Based on Hansen’s patience philosophy and striking when the time is right, I’m really excited to see what those “bullets” or “poison pills” are going to be on or before April 3rd. It will be exciting to speculate what that is: another investor? Naming rights to the new arena? Who knows…but I think that while Sacramento thinks they have a certain number to get to and an arena to approve, in three and a half weeks, there’s actually something else that’s not being said publically that’s going to be too hard for the Sacramento effort to overcome.
Because I thought Wilson should have won the ROY period. EaStPN, and its pundits had a cush for IR3 all year long, so it was obvious the prom queen was going to win it. If someone wins alot of other awards first, might as well pile em all on, right?
LOL dave thinks they can add another 77m to the offer and have a clear cut arena deal, the kings are staying.
I guess I left out the value of Sleep Train arena. But still, you get the idea.
:) that’s good stuff! yeah, mastrov says this is “all part of the process.” how is bidding $80 million less than your competitors and getting laughed at by the nba “part of the process?” if he could bid more i don’t see why he wouldn’t. based on his and kj’s comments, i bet they are still looking for more investors and are hoping to add money that way.
Hansen’s not stupid. KJ is whining and crying all over TV and radio while Hansen is crunching numbers on an RSN. An RSN is what the BOG will like
Fair enough. Still isn’t 100% his fault. I agree EaStPN is an awesome little acronym. :)
Yea the possible RSN $$$ is definitely one of the wild cards or bullets that Hansen has.
My favorite bullet theory is that we get the Phoenix Coyotes playing here next year. :)
Ooo I like that. An RSN would definitely be a huge selling point with the BOG.
It is “all about the money,” right? So the suggestion is that NBA would get a % of the RSN revenues? Or that the RSN would almost certainly make Seattle’s NBA team TV revenues higher than they would be with no RSN? I can buy either idea. But it is % of revenues that NBA gets, not % of profit. So I thought RSN would generate more profit for sure, wasn’t sure about more revenue. Again I don’t see that as a stretch, just wondering what folks know about this. #PleaseEnlightenMe
Carmichael Dave has been wrong on most things so I don’t even trust this comment. I think the offer could be have an even bigger discrepancy but that’s just a guy feeling more than anything. Whatever it is it was large enough to be derided pretty quickly by stern
My favorite bullet theory is that we get the Phoenix Coyotes playing here next year. :)
Hansen would have to have found someone to be the owner before that, since he has said that he doesn’t want to own the NHL team.
He also said the offer was $30 million less immediately after Wojo’s report that it was slightly lower. I think he’s just pulling numbers out of thin air based on whatever the media narrative is.
This would fit in with what we have seen to date of his personality. :)
80m is still a lot off though but question remains if its even larger than that.
i doubt NBA would have tossed it if it was 30m less.
I bet Hansen crunched those RSN numbers well before he ever decided to go all in on this deal. He may have had to revise them given the changes in the CBA, revenue sharing, etc. This must be the biggest back story to this whole struggle… who is going to get the next PacNW RSN?
Well Levin has been the only one interested that came out publicly that would be willing to play in Key arena for 2-3 years.
Wouldn’t it have been funny if the hawks would have won the sb with a rookie qb, yet he didn’t get the ROY because stats don’t apply after the regular season? Of course, being in seattle, it wouldn’t make much news, but if it were one of the media darlings, steAlers, cowboys, niners, green bay, it would have been on sportcenter non stop.
Right. They would have pretended to consider it, then dropped it publicly on April 18.
Here’s my solution to that suppose 80m gap ask the 25 or so people that offered 1 million dollars to up it to 4.5m dollars ;)
Somehow I think it’s someone else, someone local. There is plenty of wealth here, and I imagine plenty of interest. I think Levin’s comment about Hansen “not knowing how to run an arena” really didn’t have anything to do with the arena but with the revenues split, and possibly with the RSN split. Hansen could find someone locally who would be more friendly about those splits. #StillDreamingHere
Well it’ll come down to if person is okay with loosing money the first 2-3 years at the Key while the new arena is built. That’s where levin has the advantage.
I trust Otto on his opinion of Levin. The NHL loves him and he would be a great owner. The earlier stuff was just posturing on arena talk in my opinion. There may be someone else but levin would get easy approval I think and did say he would relocate permanently to Seattle
The NHL itself could opt to relocate to Seattle. They have told Phoenix that they flat out are leaving if there is no deal by June, and I would not be shocked to see them make a move as the team’s owners even if they don’t have a strong buyer on the ready.
I think it’s more likely there’d be a buyer for the team here, but I think the NHL situation is totally up in the air.
Yeah Mohammed is looking like a head case to me
“Work begins soon on a $99 million Mercer West project to create a widened two-way underpass crossing Aurora Avenue North. Road detours could coincide with the return of Sonics basketball to KeyArena for a couple years, and construction of the new Highway 99 tunnel portal.”
Aw, what do you wanna bet we will hear about THIS little problem soon… :)
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020518621_mercerfairviewxml.html
Why is that?
If it’s cause CBS showed that replay of him swiping at the rebound that Anderson grabbed, I think that’s a whole lot of nothing. He clearly didn’t see that it was his teammate grabbing for the ball, he only saw the arms. As soon as he recognized who it was, he let Anderson secure the Board and get the put back.
Just all the yelling he did at his own teammates. Just seems like he will have mental lapses
does shabazz even have the height to be an elite nba player? isn’t he like 6’6″ 230? that would be my biggest concern
Ah, yeah, I didn’t catch that part. I’m not so sure about mental lapses, but he certainly seems to be a bit of a pain in the ass. Sort of in the Kobe mold.
That’s fantastic size for a shooting guard.
Problem is, he’s not a very good shooter.
I doubt that will be that much of an issue.
Not having an actual issue hasn’t stopped anyone against this from complaining so far.
Yep, can’t pass and is most effective in the post against smaller guards.
What I’ve seen, he’d get manhandled at the 3.
that’s why i was surprised. didn’t realize he was projected to be a guard.
Yep, and that’s why he scares me as a potential pick. He’s caught between both wing positions.
That was some reality check commissioner David Stern delivered to Sacramento on Friday night when he said the counter-strike to keep the Kings is so far behind the Seattle package that it won’t even receive serious consideration unless the deal in the California capital gets better.
That would have been encouraging enough for the attractive bid out of Washington state. The real uplifting news for the group trying to revive the SuperSonics, the real take-away from Stern’s blunt analysis before Rockets-Warriors in Oakland, is the new awareness of how much the league is holding Sacramento’s hand during a very challenging process.
In short: Not as much as it seemed before.
Stern has always wanted the Kings to stay. They would have been gone years ago if not for Stern guiding the Maloof family, the owners who almost always followed the commissioner’s lead on any league matter. He previously believed in Kevin Johnson as a first-term mayor and newbie politician at any level. More recently, either Stern or top aides have been in regular contact with Sacramento after leaders there were caught flat-footed by the Seattle group led by Chris Hansen and Steve Ballmer that was more proactive and more organized.
But for the Sacramento proposal to be so lacking that Stern said the offer is “not comparable“ to the one from Seattle is very interesting insight. Either the league is not holding Sacramento’s hand to the point of telling Johnson specifically what the bid needs to look like, as it once seemed, or Mayor KJ, Mark Mastrov and Ron Burkle as lead private investors didn’t listen. Either way, Stern has drawn a line between encouraging the Sacramento efforts and privately leading them.
This is not close to game over. Mastrov, a Bay Area resident who attended Warriors-Rockets, downplayed Stern’s comments by telling The Associated Press that “It’s all part of the process.” He’s right. But he’s also spinning: Johnson waited so long, beyond his own original timeline, to deliver a sparkling offer on the purchase of the team and the construction of an arena, and now it should be painfully clear to the Sacramento backers that the city did not. This is not the process they wanted.
Johnson missed the chance to truly lobby owners and other influential NBA leaders at All-Star weekend when he showed up in Houston without a Sacramento bid to spotlight and now he has missed the chance to push back hard at Seattle. Sacramento needs to regroup again, and now it is clear Stern will only hold their hand so far.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/03/09/sterns-take-double-good-news-for-seattle-backers/
That was some reality check commissioner David Stern delivered to Sacramento on Friday night when he said the counter-strike to keep the Kings is so far behind the Seattle package that it won’t even receive serious consideration unless the deal in the California capital gets better.
That would have been encouraging enough for the attractive bid out of Washington state. The real uplifting news for the group trying to revive the SuperSonics, the real take-away from Stern’s blunt analysis before Rockets-Warriors in Oakland, is the new awareness of how much the league is holding Sacramento’s hand during a very challenging process.
In short: Not as much as it seemed before.
Stern has always wanted the Kings to stay. They would have been gone years ago if not for Stern guiding the Maloof family, the owners who almost always followed the commissioner’s lead on any league matter. He previously believed in Kevin Johnson as a first-term mayor and newbie politician at any level. More recently, either Stern or top aides have been in regular contact with Sacramento after leaders there were caught flat-footed by the Seattle group led by Chris Hansen and Steve Ballmer that was more proactive and more organized.
But for the Sacramento proposal to be so lacking that Stern said the offer is “not comparable“ to the one from Seattle is very interesting insight. Either the league is not holding Sacramento’s hand to the point of telling Johnson specifically what the bid needs to look like, as it once seemed, or Mayor KJ, Mark Mastrov and Ron Burkle as lead private investors didn’t listen. Either way, Stern has drawn a line between encouraging the Sacramento efforts and privately leading them.
This is not close to game over. Mastrov, a Bay Area resident who attended Warriors-Rockets, downplayed Stern’s comments by telling The Associated Press that “It’s all part of the process.” He’s right. But he’s also spinning: Johnson waited so long, beyond his own original timeline, to deliver a sparkling offer on the purchase of the team and the construction of an arena, and now it should be painfully clear to the Sacramento backers that the city did not. This is not the process they wanted.
Johnson missed the chance to truly lobby owners and other influential NBA leaders at All-Star weekend when he showed up in Houston without a Sacramento bid to spotlight and now he has missed the chance to push back hard at Seattle. Sacramento needs to regroup again, and now it is clear Stern will only hold their hand so far.
http://tinyurl.com/ab7n2g2
Didn’t stern also say that he would like to see a team back in Seattle before he retires? Sorry but i disagree that stern always like to see the Kings stay cause that counters what he said earlier regarding Seattle.
42-13. lol. Still have it on DVR.
They showed a stat that Muhammad is not that efficient in the post. Most his points in the paint come off offensive rebounds or fast breaks. Statistically he is best at catch and shooting. He has a long ways to go to becoming a starter in the NBA. Honestly he is probably a good 6th man.
One thing I will give him is that he has some skill and I actually see a little James Harden in him. That would be his ceiling if all things broke right for him.
The problem is that if he a 20 ppg scorer he is probably playing on not so good of a team.
I wonder if the low ball bid will play any role in the end of the owners vote. Lets say they up their bid to where it needs to be. I mean Im sure other owners dont appreciate the crapstorm of PR on the league from Sacramento and then offering up chump change in comparison to where they need to be.
It probably wont but I think that the NBA was just calling Mastrov,KJ, and Burkle out yesterday for lowballing and didnt want to tell them at the BoG that they were never even considered. FAIR WARNING Sacramento that is all the NBA is saying. Up the bid if you would like to be considered.
Obviously Mastrov may already be vetted BUT they are putting the NBA in a bind if they dont get their final offer in real soon (like the next 10 days). Michael McCann-Sports Law said that it usually takes 6 weeks when I asked him when the Hansen PSA was announced. Well the NBA will have to fast track vetting on a fast tracked offer. Their backs are against the wall. They are going to need a desperation attempt to tie the game and get into overtime IMO
I like that theory too :)
me too. can’t bring myself to delete it, although it’s taking up a helluva lotta room on my dvr.
I’m not sure this would really be a good thing… I want a Hockey team here, but having the return of the NBA and a new NHL team all in one season could be too much at once, and make for a more difficult “inagural” season for the NHL. I won’t complain if it happens, the scenario just worries me.
I don’t think he has the handle or playmaking ability of Harden. I think the stat they rolled off today was that he has 24asts in 25games. He also has shown nothing as a pick n roll player, something Harden also excels at. Michael Redd seems his upside to me. Isaiah Austin playing in the Baylor/Kansas game is a guy that I think could be a very special player a few years down the line, probably a boom or bust sorta prospect but he’s got a ton of potential as an inside outside player/rim protector, rebounds real well too.
Yeah that is a good point BUT Harden as a freshman was a good scorer and obviously better with distribution though he didnt take off till his second year. Muhammad is a case of “if he stayed” he would probably be better off. I just see him having a better chance of getting to that ceiling that he has if he developed his game more rather than being thrown to the wolves of the NBA.
It’s not like Mastrov can just add $50 Million+ to his bid and immediately resubmit. Presumably, he spent at least a month putting together his initial bid, getting his financial documents in order and finding a line of credit. To increase his bid, he will have to convince at least one bank to significantly increase his loan. This should also force the BOG to reevaluate his financial ability to own the team. Every dollar that Mastrov has to increase his bid is another dollar that he will have to leverage against the team. That doesn’t look good to the NBA.
this is why my bet is that IF there is a revised bid it will need to include additional investors.
No offense, but it is a little presumptuous to act like we know how he is funding the offer, and even more presumptuous to think that Mastrov will be funing his offer primarily through debt. Remember, the NBA will be evaluating a number of factors, including the strength of the ownership group. If Mastrov makes an offer equivalent to Hansen, the NBA will not view that offer as equal if Mastrov is highly leveraged.
Its a challenge enough having to some how come up with more money especially by April 3rd to increase the offer with out putting them in a rough position to where NBA would say no even if it was a match.
Didn’t stern also say that he would like to see a team back in Seattle before he retires? Sorry but i disagree that stern always like to see the Kings stay cause that counters what he said earlier regarding Seattle.
Some (like Wojnarowski) have said that Stern would like to get a team back in Seattle before he retires, but I don’t think Stern has ever said that publicly.
Howard-Cooper’s reference, I think, is based on how Stern has been so patient and supportive throughout all of the years and failed arena attempts in Sacramento prior to 2011 (whereas in Seattle he was the exact opposite). That may ultimately be Sacramento’s best hope.
Superior basebrawl with Canada-Mexico in the WBC.
This is why Ballmer and the Nordstrom brothers are there. Hansen’s not doing the heavy lifting alone. He’s got a lot of cash, but even this would be a lot for someone whose fortune is tied to his investments.
Not if Ron Burkle is involved… None of us really know the composition of the ownership group and how little or if Burkle is going to be a part owner, or just a developer. If Burkle is in the ownership group, they could increase the offer quite easily. We simply do not know, which is what makes this most difficult.
Hopefully the two countries go to war over this and some how Oklahoma is whipped out.
Maloofs won’t sell to Burkle. So i don’t for that reason why Burkle would be involved.
I have come to the conclusion that everybody here on this site should be paid for their contributions about this fiasco. No Sarcasm.
The different spins coming out of the sports beat writers make me puck. It truly is amazing how so called writers have the ability to speak David Stern. It is a special dialect. We are not privileged.
Hell, everybody here gets a raise!
Did you hear David Stern’s comments??? He made it pretty clear that, ultimately the BOG will take control of the situation and decide.
I am of the belief that Mastrov lowballed to be able to say hey we need to throw more money in the bid so we are gonna the city to help more to cover costs on the arena side. Like lets the city is offering 250 million in arena contribution; Mastrov may ask well get closer to 300 million then we can significantly up our offer on the ownership side. Obviously that is my thinking and clearly could be off base but the money has to come from somewhere because I highly doubt he would throw a significantly lower bid if he had the money to at least be close to Hansen’s offer.
Until we know his actual bid (maybe we will find out maybe not) it will be hard to get a grasp on what Mastrov was thinking when sending it to the league.
Burkle’s ties to the AEG bid make me think he’s not, though. Certainly 30% of the Lakers is more valuable to him than 65% of the Kings. Makes sense he’d only be part of the arena. Just my humble opinion.
Yeah, I found that bizarre.
I do wonder if they’re willing to take that to the bank, though. Proclaiming unlimited power and actually trying to see if it holds up to legal scrutiny are two very different things. All in all, I think it’s just talk. I mean if Stern said the Maloofs would have to sign onto any Sac deal, Sac would be greatly discouraged. Like I’ve probably said a million times too many here, the NBA will float out proclamations of their power or even write them into their constitution, but will avoid having all of that reviewed by the court systems like the plague.
I think you are making a large assumption as to thats what Stern meant when he said that. The NBA will have a hard time telling the Maloofs to sell to Mastrov/Burkle especially if Kehriotis actually comes through. If asked who am I worried about out of those two groups…..probably Kehriotis
Well who knows how this bid was put together in the first place. There was a lot of speculation that KJ was having a hard time getting his whales to commit, so perhaps there was a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes with Mastrov and Burkle wanting more public money already, wanting to limit their investments, etc. KJ had to make his announcement and get something out there by March 1st, he had talked it up too much, so perhaps this low end Mastrov bid was simply as much as KJ could get the guy to commit to.
I agree. They use the sembelance of ultimate power as more of a fear tactic. Thats why they will extort people or cities like in 2008 by saying get rid of this lawsuit or you will never have a team. The NBA wont turn down the Hansen bid unless they have an offer that is equal or more. I think it has to be more to justify it.
Stern did say if an ownership group decides to leave the NBA, it doesn’t retain the right to say where the team will reside. I’m not sure exactly what to take from that, since the language seems to be relocation focused, but it’d obviously make more sense in the context of a sale.
Totally agree. Each team deserves it’s own honeymoon period.
Umm that is SO Anit-trust. illegal. NBA CAN NOT force an owner to sell locally. Since NBA do not own the Kings they can’t make Maloofs accept the other offer.
Same here.
I mean really if we want the Coyotes it probably has to be next season, and the only way they get a honeymoon period of their own is if Hansen backs down and is granted EWORDEWORDEWORD. That seems unlikely; however, the NHL is a lot more likely to grant EWORDEWORDEWORD than the NBA, so I don’t think we have a whole lot to worry about on that front. Let’s get our Sonics and the NHL will come to us.
I agree trolltossin, I think could have been a really crappy manipulative sleazey way by Mastrov and even KJ to force the City of Sacramento to put in more $$. I have no idea if the $80 that CMB put out there is correct. Actually that does NOT seem like a lot off to me in a deal like this with the $$ all these potential owners have. The only way they’ll up their bid it is if they can make the City of Sacramento bridge the majority of the difference. There is a built-in value to an NBA franchise as there are a limited supply so the investor’s investment will/should increase each year. However, the cost of running the franchise is where I think this Mastrov group is lacking.
I think what is being “sensed”, sort of like “blood in the water” is that the mayor, KJ, is desperate to keep these team and it seems to be the only economic excitement in that City right now — KJ needs this deal to happen and if the revitalization piece of the downtown is so critical, the investor group is banking that the City will put out almost all the money for the arena and they get all the upside.
Sacramento’s City Manager doesn’t sound like he’s going to do whatever KJ tells him to do — that will be very interesting to watch politically.
And I think the BOG will do whatever Stern tells them to do. That was pretty clear last night.
Finally I hope Chris Hansen goes in there on April 3 and BLOWS AWAY the BOG with how amazingly AWESOME his bid is and all the work and $$ he’s put into this so far. I think that his planning and deep professionalism and his grasp at all the details is the true disadvantage to Sacramento and David Stern. They are dealing with someone very superior in his approach and ability to put together a killer financial deal for the Maloof’s, the NBA, and Seattle.
Grateful, grateful, grateful we have Chris Hansen.
That is kind of why I was suprised why KJ wouldnt want to go with Kehriotis. I know that it could be the city wants it downtown and their hand deeper in the process than Kehriotis would allow. I also think thast the point you made about “how much Mastrov would commit too.” I think thats why Mastrov is going to say the city needs to sweeten the pot for him to bridge the enormous gap. Being 75-125 million short is a HUGE gap to cross to get to where Hansen and Ballmer are just for consideration. They got a lot of work to do and not too much time to do it. Pretty much the city is going to have to cave to any demands that Mastrov/Burkle make at this point. The negotiation time has almost came to an end.
I don’t think the arena deal was set up so that the NHL could come first. I think it was either both at the same time or NBA first, then NHL second. I guess the only way that could change is if the prospective NHL owner (i.e., Levin) was willing to put some some of his own money towards the arena.
I don’t think it’s a likely scenario, but if Seattle were promised, like in writing, an EWORDEWORDEWORD franchise by the NBA, it’d have the same effect as Chris relocating the Kings, in terms of allowing the arena deal to move forward. At that point, the NHL could likely show up whenever they pleased. An NBA team has to be secured first, not physically be here.
The 80 million d0ollars would be about 20% less than the Hansen offer ( I think gap is more significant than 80 million).
I forgot where the city manager used to have that title (Cincinnati) or something along those lines and I think he left the city out to dry financially on a stadium project. I think it was the NFL stadium and ended up being a poor deal for the city. You have to think that he would want to learn from his mistakes and make sure this time the city he is managing doesnt get hosed. If he screws the pooch and leaves a city liable and hurting from another folly of a stadium project then he may not be managing a city of significance again.
A lot for them to hammer out in just 25 days (23 starting of next business week) and they still need to get an arena deal at least started.
Even if they find a way to bridge the gap, their arena project is going to have to have fallback finances if/when the parking revenue bids come up short. If the NBA is worried about our arena (I dont think they do but they may); then they are most assuredly skepitical of an arena project in Sacramento which whether they will admit it or not is in the “idea”stages as we speak. I mean the bidding on the parking, if expedited, will take over 6 months and then they have the EIR which may not be as cumbersome as the process we are going through but still will take 6 months. In essence I doubt teh city can move forward with an EIR w/out knowing how much the parking revenue will cover and figuring out how to pay for the rest and make sure the public is happy about it.
That says nothing of potential lawsuits, as petty as they may be. They actually may have more legal standing because of how fast they are throwing this together. .Almost none in their city council have financial backgrounds and could easily open themselves to litigation by expediting something that should take atleast 4-6 months minimum into a 1 month window. Blueprint or not
I do agree that if CH doesn’t get at least a team promised to him out of this it is probably over between him and the league. The only reason he wouldn’t cry foul over all this is either 1) it’s all a sham and he’ll be approved anyways or 2) he has had a back room deal from the beginning guaranteeing him another team if SAC stays, and this is a favor to the league letting this go on. Either way, we know Mastrov doesn’t have a gag order, so he probably doesn’t either. Only CURRENT NBA owners that will be voting in April (Minus the Maloofs-they cant vote on their own sale) are gagged.
The NBA is a private club, with rules in place that were agreed upon by all members of that club. I’m sure that the NBA by-laws, agreed upon by owners, include provisions about any prospective owner needing to be approved by the league. The NBA has made it clear that the BOG has authority to determine who is allowed to buy a team. The NBA also clearly has a process for determining whether to allow a team to move. So yes, the NBA can determine who the Maloofs sell the Kings to.
There are obviously limitations to how and when they will force things to happen. For example, Stern seemed to make it clear in his recent press comments that for the Mastrov/Burkle group to have an offer to present for the BOG to choose between, they need to match the money being offered by the Hansen/Ballmer group.
My guess is that Mastrov/Burkle were never going to present a real offer anyway, and this is all for show. They will come in with a new “best they can do” offer that is still short of the Hansen/Ballmer offer, and Stern will play along and present it to the BOG anyway. The BOG will then unanimously approve Hansen/Ballmer.
I wish there was a way for the future Sonics to get their hands on Avery Bradley. That guy is a lockdown defender. He is still only what 22 years old. His best basketball is ahead of him. I doubt that Doc Rivers would like to see him go though, Ainge as well. I think in a couple seasons as his offensive game gets better he is going to be a pretty dang good PG/SG when it comes to the advanced metrics. He is a lockdown defender. I wonder what could entice the Celtics into giving him up. I wonder if they would do a sign and trade with Evans or most likely it would take Demarcus. I dont really pay much attention to Boston so they may say he is untouchable. Especially if they do anything in the playoffs without Rondo there.
Wouldnt mind figuring a way to swap for Green and Bradley with a package of players……..just not much value with a lot of Kings players. I think a PG combo of Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley could be pretty nice. Not all world or anything legitimate IMO
But even things that are agreed upon can be found to be illegal in terms of antitrust. You can’t sign away certain rights nor can a group of people come to an agreement that trumps the law. It would be a very, very tough case for the NBA to defend its supposed ability to decide who an owner is allowed to sell to. It’s why the MLB balked after blocking a PSA that would’ve moved the Giants to Tampa and gave Tampa an expansion team after losing a preliminary hearing.
He said that but that doesn’t make it so. There isn’t a PSA between the Maloofs and Sacramento.
If the Maloofs never intend to own another NBA franchise then there’s not much holding them back from taking the league to court.
He should be able to reopen a bidding process since there are at least two potential groups in Sacramento.
Even if his initial offer is all cash, he wouldn’t have the solvency to add a significant amount of more cash to the offer. Businessmen like Mastrov don’t just have a giant bank account; their wealth is tied up in stocks and hedge funds that take a while to liquidate. On top of that, based on numerous reports of his fortune, he is already stretching himself somewhat thin if it’s a cash-only deal.
Stern is holding Sac hands but why? I think deep down he wants to keep the team in Sac.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/03/09/sterns-take-double-good-news-for-seattle-backers/
The league has to deny the financial viability of the Hansen/Ballmer group (not likely), or claim that the league would prefer to not relocate the franchise.
If it’s denying relocation then there is more than one local group interested in buying the team. The owners should be able to pick between the different groups. That doesn’t look like a tough argument to make in court.
And instantly the value of the franchise drops because much of its inflated value, according to Forbes, is tied to its mobility. Now you have the league forcing a sale and damaging the property.
And the Maloofs want their money.
Hansen money issues? No way
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2020518501_hansenvaliantperformxml.html
That newsletter is just trying to sell papers. They know that they piss off our side so we read and talk about it. Then the other side likes to read so they read it too. More readership for an outdated piece of toilet paper.
A tired, haggard, and Shell Shocked Kevin Johnson after Stern’s announcement saying the same, sad things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hgpPoR3xZHk
If you tell yourself something enough, eventually you’ll believe it. KJ is in full denial with what’s about to happen….psychiatrists are standing by.
ST isn’t fit to line a bird cage. A bird would probably hold in its excrement until something more suitable was placed underneath it.
NBA has no authority to force an ownership change. If Maloofs don’t want to sell locally then there is nothing the NBA can do to change that.
The NBA negotiates labor agreements with NBA players as a group. They negotiate TV contracts as a group. They schedules games as a group. They come up with by-laws that define how they operate as a group.
This seems to be a lot like owning a franchise. As a franchise owner, there are rules about how and where you can operate. In some cases, there are rules about who you can sell to.
I am not aware of any case law that sets precedent (either for or against) for courts denying a league’s right to approve team sales. The Maloofs could sue, but could also lose. Why would they even bother to sue if the Mastrov/Burkle group matches the Hansen/Ballmer offer? They will get paid the same either way.
Johan Petro is trending on twitter right now FWIW.
I imagine the NBA can call their debt from the Maloofs. Since the Maloofs can’t pay, the NBA would take over ownership of the club at a well defined buyout price. The Maloofs would make less money by being forced to sell to the NBA to cover their debt. So yes, the NBA probably can force the Maloofs to sell.
I thought we discussed that issue on the last thread?
According to the article Hansen’s hedge fund had a 10% return for the year of 2012 despite the 4th quarter dip. That’s a ROI I’d like to have.
These are good arguments for why the NBA won’t deny the sale to Hansen/Ballmer. I don’t even think Mastrov/Burkle will come up with a matching offer, which will make it a moot point anyway. Stern made it clear that the offer needs to match financially for it to be a viable alternative offer for the BOG to consider.
They can do all that, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t vulnerable to legal challenges.
Look at the NFL lockout of a couple years ago: without the labor agreement, the league could’ve been totally blown up. There was serious worry that a lawsuit could be formed by an incoming rookie backed by the NFLPA that would totally blow up the draft, and it’d win, probably fairly easily. The Supreme Court ruled recently that the NFL can’t do licensing for clothing, etc. as one entity, that instead the NFL is essentially a cartel of 32 independent groups. The rules and bylaws these cartels conjure up are propped up by everybody involved being complicity and not going “nuclear”. The 30 NBA teams are individual businesses, not franchises, and they’d be able to put forth an extremely tough case that an owner of a business can’t be limited in their ability to sell it.
I don’t think it would come to this, but it’s worth noting. It’s why I believe any scenario where Sac keeps the Kings would have to involve a deal struck and agreed to by the NBA, Hansen, and the Maloofs, UNLESS the NBA is near entirely certain that neither Hansen nor the Maloofs would raise any kind of a stink.
There hasn’t been precedent set in professional sports on this level, because it hasn’t gotten that far. The closest was the Tampa/SF case in the MLB and the MLB didn’t want to test the waters.
Do we have any idea if the terms of the Maloofs/NBA loan allows for the NBA to decide to call it in, in its entirety, at any moment?
If Hansen doesn’t come out of this with the sale/move approved or a promise (in writing) of an another team if he backs out, he will raise a big stink IMO.
silvio, i meant to compliment your post before. i managed to pick up an unfortunate rooting interest in hertha berlin. . . if only i’d chosen bayern munich. . . oh well, promotion again someday.
I would imagine that the $30 million dollars Hansen paid the Maloofs would ensure against claims that they could not make their loan payments while conducting and open bid for a local buyer.
No, I don’t think that info is publicly available. My comments are only speculation. But, no more speculation than when people say they NBA can’t force an owner to sell. In my opinion, the NBA forced Shinn to sell them the NO franchise. Shinn could have got more money by selling the team to be relocated.
sean, you are right. i know for a fact that after baltimore didn’t get an nfl expansion team, they started making noises about how they were examining legal options while shopping for another franchise. . . the mere threat of legal action scares these leagues for the reasons you outline. when the pilots moved, seattle threatened mlb and that — along with the kingdome — helped bring in the mariners. . . leagues do not want to deal with that. hansen is not likely to simply go quietly into that dark night.
Good point. That might be one of the main reasons for the early payment - to keep the Maloofs solvent and able to continue their payments to the NBA while the purchase is being finalized.
Oh, I’m absolutely speculating, but the reason there isn’t precedent is because anytime something pretty close to this comes up the leagues find a way to make it go away. In Shinn’s case, they just made him an offer he accepted. In other cases the leagues just throw out an expansion team. They have a vested interest in not having their power challenged in courts, because if their power gets rigidly defined in the law, they lose much of the presumed power they have to those complicit in their business model.
I thought I heard Mitch or someone else report that the Maloofs have not defaulted on their loan to the NBA. If that’s the case, then it’s extremely unlikely that the NBA has the right to accelerate (“call”) the loan.
mitch levy mitch levy @kjrmitch
Various sources estimate nearly $100M lower RT @ThaRealDanimal Sac is rumored to be $80mil lower than Hansen/Ballmer. Is that the ballpark?
Holy! wow 100m?
No wonder Stern called them out.
If true, how could they think that would ever be considered?
Scott Howard-Cooper @SHowardCooper
@NickMillerBSU @ChrisDaniels5 If he was really holding SAC’s hand, SAC would have made an offer that didn’t get brushed aside. My point.
This would only provide the assurances the the Maloofs are failed businessmen.
Now, what exactly is their business history?
well a 100m less for an offer does somewhat make sense given mastrov’s networth.
Insert several animated whale gifs here.
Ok, NOW I feel sorry for the Sac fans. That’s just such a complete let down, embarrassing really.
I guess it makes sense if they are taking off the debt and relocation fee and claim thats their fair and competitive offer.
So they have 25 days to come up with 100m.
Well played.
Now that i think of it its fair for Sacramento to be called out like that by stern. 100m off come on thats a joke if your not making a serious offer why bother making an offer at all.
I think that’s the whole reason he made it public. Certainly he would have hinted privately if it was only a little under. The public statement drove it home that this will not do at all.
Could adding money actually knock mastrov a percentage of ownership below being the majority owner? That could be a problem with just adding partners or finding money. Lots of stuff to work out on that end for sure…$100 million according to Mitch.
I would think that, even if they would vote down the Hansen sale and ”force” the Maloofs to take a local offer, it would at least have to be close.
If Hansen is not able to get the Kings, I doubt that he would sue, or make a big fuss about it. I would think Hansen would move on to acquiring another team. I would think Hansen and Ballmer have aleady done some research on other teams worth attempting to purchase. Making a big stink would not benefit the efforts of Hansen and Ballmer in any way. I doubt that they even expected to be immediately successful in their aims for a team, anyway. Hansen and Ballmer do not seem like whiners to me. They seem like pragmatic businessmen, who know to keep emotion out of business.
Also, Hasn’t everybody learned their lesson about getting worked up about tweets?
Also, Hasn’t everybody learned their lesson about getting worked up about tweets?
Mitch has been right a lot, though.
It would not be Hansen making the stink but the Mallofs that could get screwed out of tens of millions of dollars.
I think Stern would be sure the Maloof’s got exactly what they were going to get from Hansen just to avoid any potential complete blow-up of this.
In a way, I’m kind of happy it’s come down to this. If it really all has to do with the April 3 presentations, then it’s sort of “may the best presentation/deal” win and I think Chris Hansen will blow the BOG away showing them why Seattle makes much more sense economically and long-term viability than Sacramento.
And perhaps that will also settle all this b.s. between the fans? Seriously, it’s a competition now — the best bid should win. Two guys, who really want to own basketball teams, Hansen who loved the SuperSonics, Mastrov who I think just loves basketball a lot. Two cities eager for their teams. Let’s see what happens on April 3. May the best prepared, best financed, most thoroughly thought through public/private plan win.
Mitch has balmer as a source so hes pretty much right when things come out like this. He did say it was a very low low low low looooow offer.
I’ll save everyone time. Bruski’s new article is the same stuff he has been peddling before so please don’t post it and complain.
Life is too short to waste my time watching Mason Plumlee on ESPN.
He is not getting those kinds of lobs in the NBA.
If there is even a better offer from Sacramento than what they provided before.
McAdoo is pretty good, a late 1st round pick. He really should not be playing center.
Time for some car washes and selling cookies
And I have zero interest in Jarrett Jack as a free agent. Watching that guy pick up his dribble last night, repeatedly, with no idea what he was going to do is just not something I want to see every night.
Clueless.
I’m curious to know what this “$100m variance” really means. Hansen/Ballmer paid $341m for a 65% share of the Kings. Is the Mastrov offer $241m, which would put the franchise value at $370m? Or, is the $100m variance in the context of the overall $525m valuation (e.g., 276m offer for 65%). This makes a big difference in terms of the $$$ needed for Burkle to match Hansen/Ballmer and an even bigger difference for what the BOG wants, which is a high franchise value.
Also, if you want to buy-in to the whole argument about the loan to Sacramento, the Mastrov group could make a smaller cash offer and assume the loan, while keeping the total franchise value at $525m. However, it is important to note that Hansen/Ballmer are only on the hook for 65% of that $77m loan (about $50m). Meaning, the Mastrov group would have to either outright match the Hansen offer ($341m for 65%) or offer $290m and assume the loan. No matter what way you look at it, the Mastrov group needs to find a ton of cash in a short period of time.
The loan really doesnt matter unless Hansen and the Maloofs made it matter (doubtful) in the PSA. The Maloofs assumed the loan from the last owner and Hansen will do the same. Hansen will have to pay it after the sale/relo approval of course but he will leverage the arena (collateral in part) and cash the minority owners (when they dont answer it they will be out). Remember that Hansen only has to pay 65% of the loan as well.
The question is, if the H/B/N are denied come up empty handed, what gives you any confidence the next team they try and buy the NBA wont pull the same stuff and let the other city have time to “match”? And the next city? and so on. I wouldn’t trust them at all in the future if they pulled that on me. Either sale/relo approved, another owner lined up to sell to me, or ironclad expansion promise is what it would take for me to pull back and not raise a fuss. I hope Chris has backbone on this and won’t let the league perpetually use him to get other cities in line without a promise he would have a team within the 5 year window. To pull back and not raise a fuss if he doesn’t have assurance another team would be mine would just be asking to be taken advantage of time and time again.
Yeah, I understand the argument about them only owing 65% of the loan (I mentioned that in my post). However, multiple reports have indicated that Hansen’s offer to the Maloof’s was net of the loan to Sacramento. If Hansen was buying 65% for $341m AND assuming 65% of the loan, then the actual franchise value is closer to $600m. I haven’t heard this reported by anyone. It’s been widely assumed that the $341m offer was net of the loan to Sacramento.
Yeah I hope Hansen wont allow himself and the city to become the Los Angeles market (NFL) to leverage other cities
Because no other city has a former NBA all-star as Mayor. Don’t underestimate how important that fact is to the NBA giving Sacramento a chance, however small that chance is.
The difference between LA and us is that we already have an arena basically passed and LA has struggled to get one for 17+ years now. Plus we only have 5 years for them to use us to leverage other markets. But I do think Chris should have backbone on this. Let it be known that he will not accept being used time and time again without assurance he would have a team soon.
Enough on the whole what if hansen is denied as off right now HE won’t be denied.
^THIS
What’s sad though is you can clearly see KJ losing his grip on reality of the situation…in essence; he keeps repeating the same things over and over again…so much so that he’s convinced himself the Kings aren’t really leaving.
Hah. You completely misread what he said in your rush to find positive things for Sacramento.
His point was if he was holding their hands, they wouldn’t have had come in with a offer that was 100 mil less. Nice try.
Moderation again? Seriously guys?
Baker - Thank you for Traven call out. You do it well.
What multiple reports are you referring to regarding Hansen offer was net of the Sac loan?
Back when the deal was initially signed. Also, every reprot has indicated that the sale price is based on a valuation of franchise at $525, with hansen paying $341m for 65%. If this is true, the PSA would have to be net of the loan. Otherwise, 1+1 wold not = 2. For example, If Hansen pays $341m for 65% AND assumes 65% of the loan $50m), the franchise valuation would be ~$600m. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t heard report, legitimate or otherwise, that has indicate the franchise value was above $525m.
what bothers me is Stern telling Sac to up its offer, nothing about Seattle being able to up its bid if they wanted too. That would really irk me if thru all this Sac can match Hansens deal but Seattle wont be able to up it by 25 mill or whatever at the end to keep the Kings.
As I’ve said before, if the NBA first blocks the Maloofs’ attempt to sell to H/B/N, and then tries to force them to sell to someone they don’t want for significantly less than the H/B/N offer by immediately calling in the loan, they’re risking The Mother Of All Lawsuits. Seriously, I’m skeptical of all the confident assertions that litigation could get us what we want, but I have little doubt that such a case could be a bloodbath for the league.
Well, they definitely are going to have a revamped offer. Not doing so would pretty much not only guarantee the loss of the Kings, but also the likely end of Sacramento’s hopes of getting any other team in the future.
The question is: will their new offer come close to or match Seattle’s? The second question is: if they do so, will the BoG feel a responsibility to keep the team there because “they did everything we asked of them?”
Numbers Guy- Remember that Hansen can use the arena for alot of the loan if not all of it especially if the Monarchs are going to play there. I highly doubt Hansen wants to keep Sleep Train Arena.
I guess you’d have to break it down how that would have that affect. I dont think the Maloofs had to pay an extra whatever hundred million because of the loan they assumed. Sure they had to pay that debt or a portion every year BUT I dont think that it had any affect on the value of the team. I just think that the team is now valued at 525 million because that is what Hansen is willing to pay (65% of that value anyways) and he “assumes” the debt. He will then use the value of the arena and make up the difference in cash probably around 35 million maximum if he ends up using the arena as partial payment. I mean Sleep Train has to be worth 40 million including the land it sits on. In actuality Hansen could probably pay the loan off and keep the land/arena and demolish the arena invest in the land and make bank off it developing it into whatever. I doubt he does that BUT I just think the loan will be seperate from the purchase.
Mastrov probably was HOPING that the loan was part of the 341 so thats why he went 100 million or so less. If it was part of the deal and the 341 million that he is paying then the NBA probably wouldve accepted the bid and it wouldve been about 25 million short and more comparable. So Mastrov now found the answer and must come back with the actual amount he needs. It wouldnt make sense to atleast try and see if that was the case (In my opinion). Why wouldnt he try to offer the least amount he could. Now he knows that he has to get to 341 million to have a chance. Now he has to weigh his options. Maybe he wont come close because the team isnt worth it in Sacramento and his ROI is too small at that price in Sacramento.
Mastrov has to keep in mind how much it costs to run an effective franchise. He didnt have any inkling what the deal included and now at least knows the number he has to reach. Who knows since they are late and followed thru with a crap offer the NBA may want it to match Hansen’s offer and some extra because of what would be getting paid out in relocation.
Really it doesnt matter until they pony up the necassary amount and come up with a rock solid (in the NBA’s eyes) arena plan. Who knows if they even can accomplish all that by finding another 100 million and figuring out how to fund the arena if the parking revenue falls short and where the shortfall will come from. It was a lot to do before we found out that the bid to buy the team was so short, now its crazy how much they have to get done to accomplish what they need to accomplish. I dont doubt that they could do it because we have no idea how close they are to having all the money in place or how far the arena project is. I know that the city council probably wont be a problem unless they have wet feet because of a possible Kehriotis proposal. We shall see.
Like Mitch said #pinsandneedles
Yeah it irks me too but there may be other avenues to accomplishing that. Is it possible to have an escalator clause in Hansen’s PSA as long as the funding for it is sound? Like if certain things happen (matching bid from outside people)? Is there a chance that a contract can be written as such. I dont think it could but is it feasible?
I was found here making just this argument a week or two ago. But think about it. This is the Coyotes… they are a playoff team. With a good ownership group this team is already ready to compete for the Cup. I don’t think this team would suffer in Seattle next year regardless of how well the NBA team was doing.
Now if you are arguing that NHL might take away some of the luster of a new NBA team, well, maybe. But the NBA team will very likely not be ready to shine for a couple/few years anyways. And these are different target markets, to some extent different fans (albeit not as distinct as Sounders / Sonics fans).
Is the argument that the sports entertainment dollar is limited and therefore it’s a risk to pit two fledgling teams against one another in this market? Well, if you make that argument then you are essentially admitting that the other side is right and that we can’t support both hockey and NBA here at the same time. I say bury that argument.
Moreover the Coyotes will be shining from from the get-go. So I think they’re immune from that failed argument anyways.
Another point.. do you think that Hansen & co will fail to successfully market the NBA team to this city, to bring back those alienated fans into the fold? With his state of the art arena, and his rock solid ownership group.. it’s only a matter of time before the team itself gets competitive, and you know the legions of Sonics fans will put aside their grudges and forget their pain, and join with the rest of us in celebrating this newfound awesomeness in the 206. It’s pretty hard for me to imagine it going down otherwise.
Not to mention the arena location is miles above the Key location. It will be so easy for so many fans to get to this new arena, I think that alone will boost interest. So you’ll argue that TV revenue is the only true measure of success / long term viability. Well, do you think that Hansen, Ballmer and the Nordstroms (others?) will run out of money before TV revenues show the necessary growth to declare success? Aren’t we all imagining that Chris will build the next RSN in the Pac NW? I really fail to see how revenues won’t build pretty quickly in this new system.
What exactly is the failure that people are fearing here? That NBA will be slow to catch on? Maybe, I doubt it, but if it did so what? With this ownership group competitiveness is only a few years out. There’s no way fans don’t flock in huge numbers once that happens. Are people afraid that hockey fans WON’T support a playoff bound Seattle Totems? Give me a break….
Good News: Spring Forward tonight means we are instantly an hour closer to the BOG meeting and official return of the Sonics!
Bad News: Fall Back in early November 3rd could mean we have to wait an extra hour for the home opener of the Sonics!
And some ugly news for SpeedCat, Totems is a horrible name for a NHL team.
Seems like we know what kind of whales Mastrov and Burkle AREN’T..Sperm Whales…they probably feel they have been brought into to be “donors” to KJs cause.
AHOY me hearties! Thar be a right beauty virgin post up yonder, just a’waitin’ for a proper defoulin’ by yer twittery, jittery typin’ fingers, aye? Ye bilge-sucking scurvy dogs! Raise th’ blimey colors, a’for I have keelhauled th’ lot of ye!
https://www.sonicsrising.com/nhl-and-nba-in-seattle-next-year-why-fear/
Bout time for a new thread, were at like 198, lol.
Ok - what happens to the loan? Not trying to be difficult. At this point reports & speculation all start to blend into a big clusterf**k.