So first let me say that Aaron Bruski does not deserve to have NBC anywhere near his title. I can deal with the fact that he is a homer because, lets face it, I’m a homer too. What I can’t deal with is the fact that he’s a sloppy journalist who cherrypicks quotes and regularly incorporates unattributed statements as a basis for his articles without looking for any verification or outside expert opinion. Is there any doubt that each and every time he says “sources close to the situation” he is just regurgitating what he is being told to say by members of Kevin Johnsons staff? If you are going to claim to be a journalist then you should have journalistic standards. The dude is something between a blogger and a stooge. Its annoying.
With that out of my system I am going to switch from Bruski over to the great fans of Sacramento. While I know that some of you choose not to view the Sacramento forums I lack that type of self-discipline. I go there and I read it because I want to know how they are feeling. I can tell you that they are feeling angry and resentful. Many of them are lashing out and they are saying stupid things. I want to remind people one more time that it is not appropriate or necessary to convince hurt and angry fans of why they are wrong. There is no purpose in arguing over who has the best fanbase or who “deserves” the Kings. We should not blame them for wanting to have a Sacramento perspective to their views or being optimistic in the face of adversity.
It is hard. I’m struggling with it and part of me is growing more dismissive and prone towards lashing out at them. Please resist answering their stupid comments with stupid comments of our own. We are the ones taking their team. We need to be the ones who have the discipline and maintain the respect for them as fellow fans in a terrible situation.
Agreed Brian. On that note, there’s a surprising number of empty seats at the Boston-okc game in okc…
“There is no purpose in arguing over who has the best fanbase or who “deserves” the Kings.” -Brian
EXACTLY!
They’re like Lakers fans now. They’ll show up in the third quarter at some point.
Well said Brian……and BTW way I read their forums too out of curiosity. Never will post anything just want to get a vibe.
They are angry and resentful? And what exactly are we?
I can’t read their stuff. I’ll let them have their space and their peace.
I get Sac fans saying angry things on StR, its a fan site its to be expected. But when you are a “journalist” and making stuff up and reporting it as “news” I get mad. I don’t know how he got his job
On the Sac side Lillis seems to be the only one who don’t have his head up his rear
Here here, Brian! Couldn’t agree more. We need to be the bigger people in this situation. We’ve been were they are. They have an excuse for the most part. We should know better.
And thanks for the comments about Bruski. I can take all the Carbuncle Dave hometown in the world. But what Bruski is doing is downright villainous. He’s purposely trying to fix the national narrative of the story. He’s a blogger masquerading as a journalist. How his bosses at NBC Sports get away with it only goes to show you just how little attention people outside Seattle and Sacramento are paying to this issue.
Hack is right … this from his latest “article”.
“After David Stern’s press conference on Friday in which he said the Sacramento offer needed to be increased, and subsequent votes of confidence from Mastrov and Johnson that they would be able to deliver, the framework for discussion among owners is all but laid out.”
Yeah - all Sac needs to do now, after 2 months of press conferences and a big giant pep rally where they announced their “whales” after hype layered on hype about how great the offer is going to be and how KJ tweeted “the bid is in!” is come up with a paltry $100MM and an arena deal. Easy.
Bruski’s “articles” would be better off getting published by Bleacher Report - where they should be.
Thanks Brian. Good thoughts.
If CH/Ballmer group would have put in 50 - 75 million more into the original bid this thing would have been all over from the get go. Sacramento would have bowed out somewhat graciously. I know the bid now is ridiculous, but with Ballmer green, a higher bid would have sealed it and Sacramento would have saved face.
It has gotten so ugly. Sometimes I wonder if Randolph Hearst is all behind this: )
Bleacher Report? Why diminish that brand. NBC is the perfect venue for this biased hack reporting. NBC “News” is the bottom of the barrel of the mainstream broadcast franchises. Their reputation is already beyond repair. Perfect home of hacks, partisans, and propagandists. Their sports and entertainment units are also bottom of the barrel, which is why their ratings are stuck in last place by a landslide among the dinosaur networks.
I firmly believe this thing was over the minute Hansen/Ballmer placed their bid. There is no need for them to go higher because Sac can’t match the current PSA. After months of cheerleading and rallying up support to meet the 3/1 deadline they still don’t have an arena deal (and best case they likely offer up a non-binding term sheet) and are $100MM short in purchasing the franchise. If that money was available they would have found it by now … think about that … $100MM! Its not like that kind of scratch all of a sudden gets “found”.
Everything else is posturing.
“We are the ones taking their team.”
Nope, “we” would be Hansen and Ballmer, just as “we” that sold the Sonics would be Howard and the other approving votes.
“We” extends to the arena, and that boundary is where (clenched teeth) Mayor McGinn is right, we worry about the arena, and Hansen worries about the team.
This struggle over the team is not Seattle vs Sacramento, but Hansen vs Burkle etc (and, apparently, David Stern).
It could be any team, no team is safe.
So, it isn’t fans vs fans, but business interests vs business interests, it could be any team.
Mayor Johnson has chosen to conflate the two for political reasons, but that’s the extent of the influence of his argument frame.
It’s business.
I think it is over. Bottom line is that the Kings are not worth $525 in Sac. There is a reason why the bid is low and no one is jumping on board. Burkle is there just to extort the broke city
Brian, you are not a journalist, Bruski is. Homerism is ok for both of you. However if it clouds his writing then he has crossed over to just being a fan with an opinion and/or an agenda. Well said. I agree. Leave their fans alone.
I’ll be honest and say when this all started, I spent quite a bit of time just reading their forums cause I wanted to know how they felt.
When I bashed Bruski and they copy and paste my comments on their site to bash me, that was the last straw. Any sliver of guilt I had felt towards them instantly went away. And that was about a month ago. It’s been ugly over there for awhile. While I can’t blame them for their feelings (cause we felt this way towards OKC), I honestly don’t think we ever stooped as low as they’re going. We had the OKC fans coming over here and rubbing in our faces..I hadn’t seen any of that happening over on the Kings forums.
I hated (yes hated) OKC fans for their constant gloating..coming into OUR house and rubbing it all in our face that we were about to lose our team. To this day I cannot watch a Thunder game cause it makes me so upset how ridiculously stupid they acted. Call me childish for feeling this way for so long, but it’s hard to fight the way you feel ya know?
I’ve been off the Kings forums for about three weeks now. Decided to go cold turkey, rip the bandaid off. When I realized how littled I cared about them as fans these days, it made it easy. I know that sounds harsh, but I’ve given up on caring after I see countless post about them bashing us as a fanbase and our city. Plus, their constant spin in making any news pro Sac would just be driving me crazy anyways. My goal is to never visit a Sac forum again…or at least until this is all over.
The title of the thread kind of reminded me of the theme song from the show Monk
http://bit.ly/VXEsUW
As for Bruski that guy just come off as a Grade A douche especially when he tried to start sh*t with Chris Daniels on Twitter.
FOX is far, far, far worse, but then again, they’re almost open about the fact that they are a political organization as opposed to a news organization.
Bruski is truly bottom of the barrel. I posted on one of his articles that NBC Sports absolutely needs to either mark his posts as opinion pieces or find someone unbiased to cover what is a pretty big story in the NBA. He deleted that comment, but it’s still true. It’s not like they have somebody else covering things from a Seattle perspective, this whole story is going through Bruski for that website, which is absolutely absurd. The reputation of PBT is taking a big hit.
I’m all in on not poking or provoking Kings fans, with the small exception of where if they come here & get rude I’m giving them the smack down and then banning them. Not in my house.
I think Scott Howard-Cooper has had one of the best points in a while on this and it flies directly in the face of the bull that Bruski and his groupies are selling. This whole notion from Sacto fans that Stern is personally holding their hand through this doesn’t scratch out.
If Stern was holding their hand why on EARTH would they “bid” 100 million dollars less? If they’re talking so closely wouldn’t Stern tell them before that such a bid would be considered a joke and that they’ll need to break into the reserve funds that they’re magically and suddenly talking about now? Why go through this step of what was pretty much a public shaming if the two sides are working together so closely?
Doesn’t make sense for Stern to tell them to send in this bid he supposedly is working with them on, look at it and go “YUP, 100 million short” then tell them in public exactly how to improve their bid — which amounts to bringing their total closer to the number that has been PUBLIC knowledge for nearly 2 months. This isn’t a blind auction, everyone knows the number contained in the CH “bid”, and if Stern was roleplaying as their grown-up and holding their hand through their bidding process why the hell would they come up so short if they had ANY other funding available
Off topic,
I’m new here, and was wondering if anyone knows a round about number of members here. I mean, members that actually contribute once a week, traffic wise?
lol, not sure why I or others post “off topic”, but I guess it’s a form of respect, right before the “dis” respect. I dunno.
That being said, I look forward to the inevitable PBT series keeping us up to date on the future Aaron Bruski v NBA lawsuit regarding ROFORFOROFOFR. Maybe he can enlist that ILWU lawyer
I think, and this is my personal take…that Mastrov’s offer was so low cause they factored in all the debt owed to the city of Sac and the NBA. There isn’t public knowledge in the terms of Hansen’s bid, which is something Mitch was talking about on his show on Friday morning.
I think Sac now knows the direction they need to go and how high-the debt is not factored into Hansen’s evaluation of the franchise. The question I have is how does someone like Mastrov-whose apprent net worth is $350M-has the financial ability to up his bid any higher yet at the same time be able to keep the franchise economically sound in the next couple of years? He can’t afford it.
You can add Ziller to the list of douchenozzles. For whatever reason he has a platform on SB outside of StR and he’s used that forum to try and paint Hansen as the bad guy time and time again.
Then in his last piece after the Stern presser he interjected assumptions that Sterns would tell Mastrov how much he was off by when they would cross paths at the GS game.
So you know the dumb “O-K-C! O-K-C!” chant the Thunder fans do. I want us to do a “SE-AT-TLE! SE-AT-TLE!” chant the first time they come here. ;)
I just see it as a 20/20 hindsight thing. I wish the bid was say, 575m >. Sacramento could have saved face. The original bid gave Sacramento a glimpse of hope. Not good for anybody, except the Maloofs and higher NBA valuations.
To put out a fire you don’t bring just enough water, you plug into the hydrant.
But if they’re working so closely with Stern how did they not know that wouldn’t fly? I think most people would tell you that wouldn’t fly, but especially if you’ve been working on this for 2 months and are supposedly being aided at all turns by the commish, how can you not know EXACTLY what you’re bidding on and even a rough number on the lowest your bid can be before it’s even considered?
Maybe they can scrounge together some more investors but all I’m saying is I hate this new fuzzy picture Sacto is trying to paint where Stern is holding their hand through this entire thing. It might be comforting for them but it makes zero sense.
I like to think a few years from now these guys are gonna look back and chuckle. Some of the reaches they make under the guise of “being a journalist” are laughable. By the same token, that’s exactly how I felt reading over our posts from 2008. I remember sitting in class my senior year of high school reading and nearly creaming myself when I read about the Schultz lawsuit and all the user comments regarding it. Now I know how the respectable OKC fans must have felt.
Fanbase vs Fanbase. The transaction is business. Not about the fans.
For me - I could careless about Bruski or his articles. I do want facts about the transaction and all new developments. If a journalist/blogger wants to speculate about those facts and the principals involved in the transaction- that’s okay, too. Just disclose that it’s speculation/viewpoint when writing/blogging about it. Don’t state it as fact.
Reading Sac fans sites? Yes - I briefly peruse the articles and comments to get a taste of their views and speculation. Post on their sites ? No. Do I want to sometimes ? Heck- yes. But only to correct them when they have Sea & Sonics facts wrong. Otherwise - it’s their place. Just as SonicsRising is our place.
On a side note Avery Bradley is shutting Russell Westbrook down.
Reggie Jackson the backup PG for OKC has a chance to be a really nice player if he went to a team who gave him big minutes
Burkle’s method of operations is to buy distressed properties and turn them around. He did it with the Pittsburgh Penguins. He only invested $20 million of his own money into the Penguins. He borrowed the rest. Then he talked the city and state into using casino revenues to fund a new building to keep the franchise. He made a bundle. The Penguins have increased in value 200%.
Sactown will not get a big investment from Burkle. That is not his style. Like in Pittsburgh he is only interested if he can make money. He has no emotional connection to Sacramento. The team is not worth $525 million in Sacramento. He is leading the arena process because he, like Stern, is good at extorting money from government officials. I am sure Sactown will need money from the California state legislature to build a competitive arena. He has been down this road before in Pittsburgh.
Stern said, it all hinged on whether the investors in Sacramento would step up and make the needed investment. Burkle won’t do it. He only wants bargain franchises. Mastrov doesn’t have it.
I think Mitch also mentioned that KJ/Mastrov want to “explain & present” their bid to the BOG. They want to “explain” how they came up to the numbers. I would speculate their “explaining” is in regards to the debt and relocation fee.
Bleacher Report is owned by Turner Sports btw. I highly doubt you will see any pro-Sac/anti-Sea articles on BR. Sac is making such a huge deal about attendance, when gate receipts only account for 29% of Basketball Related Revenue. It’s also smaller arena with much less expensive tickets. Another thing that the BOG will consider is that the Sac franchise value went up $225 million from 2012-2013 (from $300million-$525Million). Purely based on the Seattle offer (went from #23 nba 2012- #11 2013). That is an enormous increase. That valuation increases EVERY teams valuation. You do NOT own an NBA team to make an income-you make money when the team is sold-it is ALL about franchise value. Also, the national TV contract expires in 3 years and 3 months-you better believe that David Levy (TNT) and John Skipper (ESPN) are dying to get the NBA back in the Seattle market. Having Seattle return will increase that contract as well (all teams share that obviously). Your local TV contract will be higher, your arena naming will be more, your corporate suites will make more, your in arena signage will make more. It is ALL about business. It’s about you guys having an affluent, educated, sophisticated fan base and progressive city that advertisers/sponsors LOVE. As much as the pro-sac people try to spin it, they absolutely cannot compete with the Seattle market on a national level.
Hurt, brusied & scarred. Wary & anxious, Hopeful.
If Kings fans hate us, I’ll accept that. I kind of hate us too. We should have a team, but that doesn’t mean they (or any other vulnerable fan base) deserve to lose one. This is the situation the NBA created when they took our team.
What gets me angry is when they start trying to justify why the Sonics left, and take the attitude that it was okay for Seattle, Charlotte, Vancouver to lose their teams, and okay for Sacramento to take the Kings from Kansas City, but that them losing their team would be such an atrocity. They are getting shafted, but they’re hardly the first city that’s happened to.
I read StR. It’s good to see all the parallels while they insist “THIS IS NOTHING LIKE SEATTLE!” while, other than the fact that
KJ>>>>>>>>>>>>Nickels, this is almost exactly the same. (I don’t begrudge KJ’s smear campaign- don’t leave tools in the shed when the job isn’t going to get done.) I wouldn’t post there- it’s their place.
Honestly, the Maloofs didn’t go to near the lengths that Bennett did to distance the team from the community- the “trading T-Rob as people lined up to meet him” is the first thing that rises to the “no team appearances within 60 miles of the arena” Bennett stuff. (Are you excited to drive to Stanwood on a Friday evening to meet Mike Wilks?!? The idea that Bennett could be considered a “great owner” is nauseating.)
I’m excited for my team to be back. Whatever names people from Sacramento want to call us, let them. That’s the battle remaining for them as it becomes clearer that they’ll lose the war, and it won’t matter on Halloween night- please, NBA, give us the Halloween opener- when I’m in the Key cheering the Sonics to victory.
Kings fans are being naive. They think Burkle is the whale that will save their team. Burkle is Clay Bennett 2.0. He is only in it for the money. He has no ties to Sacramento. His game plan is:
1. Buy the franchise cheap
2. Convince the legislature/city to finance an arena 100%.
3. Flip the team to an out of town buyer if it doesn’t happen.
He was counting on Stern and the NBA being unwilling to relocate another team after the abuse they have suffered after the Sonics fiasco and giving him a home town discount. I see Stern’s press conference as part of the negotiations. Stern seems to be saying, “No discount!” Mastrov wants to save the team for Sacramento. Burkle only wants to make money.
while, other than the fact that KJ>>>>>>>>>>>>Nickels, this is almost exactly the same
Even that is a bit exaggerated. Nickels did more to try and keep the team here than most people remember and unlike KJ he was facing a hostile NBA aiding the getaway. And prior to the Maloofs trying to move to Anaheim in 2011 there had been a long period where nothing got done in Sacramento on the arena front. If Stern had treated Sacramento like he treated Seattle, the team would have left long before KJ was in position to do anything about it (as Howard-Cooper noted in his article yesterday).
It’s like a Yakov Smirnov routine…
At StR they say, “You got Burkle?”
At Sonics Rising they say, “Burkle got you.”
And as for Bruski, I think it’s better to just ignore him rather than write posts about him.
It will be interesting to see how the NBA will play the return of the Sonics. As many may perceive the Sonics return as an ugly relocation fight - they may want to keep games & hype low key - at least initially.
Sac fans should be angry and grasping at any rumor or perspective that offers hope. I did the same thing when the Sonics left. No reason to go to their forms unless you get kicks watching something die a slow painful death.
Bruski is a douche of the highest douche order. The day he is no longer considered a national writer will be a good day.
Honestly Bruski should be Steinbruecks press secretary and take their show on the road.
Good points !!
Well said, Brian. I admit to becoming dismissive of Sacto’s feelings as they’ve become increasingly dismissive of Seattle and incredibly myopic about their own situation. Of course they’re only doing what’s natural: finding the silver lining in hopes of supporting their own cause.
“Bruski is somewhere between a blogger and a stooge” i vote stooge!
While some of those unsourced comments are arguably valid, the last sentence is demonstrably untrue. Sunday Night Football was the highest-rated prime time program for the last two years. http://articles.philly.com/2013-01-09/news/36218753_1_abc-cbs-ratings
Just read the Bruski article. The guy’s getting the smackdown in the comments section.
Seriously one of the dumbest stats he uses is the number of TVs per sport teams. His argument would have you believe that one can’t be an NBA and an NFL fan for example. The only time one might have a scheduling conflict is when the seasons overlap. With DVRs that’s hardly a problem.
NBC “news” really has lost any respect I ever had for them over the last couple of election cycles. “News” should be “news”, not political commentary which is something they do constantly. So, the truth is that Bruski really follows well into what NBC does.
That’s why I have multiple TV’s. Nothing wrong with Hawks on one screen Sonics on another!
Another stupid argument is that the King’s have 100% market share. You’re telling me no one cares about the 49ers or Giants? Sac is basically a suburb of the Bay anymore. Look at a King’s game, half the crowd is wearing Giants or Nines gear
Well what about people who have three TV sets and can watch 3 diferent Seattle sports at once??? What then Bruski? My argument is as stupid as his
Calling Bruski a stooge is an insult to these 3 gentlemen ;)
http://bit.ly/YUIMjg
I will tell you what I have heard regarding Burkle from media sources outside of Seattle or Sacramento.
The rumor is that Burkle has been tracking NBA teams and the concept of bringing the NFL the L.A. for a long time. He is known as a “spreadsheet trader.” He will express interest and schedule meetings to try to learn about the opportunity. Then he will draft up a bunch of ideas to revolutionize the business saying “It would be worth this if only we could get this.” He trades 3-4 rounds of numbers on spreadsheets trying to find a regular business model that applies to professional sports before people decide that he is a waste of their time and stop calling him back.
I have heard that this is the reason the Maloofs AND the NBA did not want to sell to him. It isn’t some personal grudge. They feel it is a waste of time because the numbers will never get high enough to be serious.
Take it for what it’s worth. I heard that from a reliable media source and not anyone close to the situation. If Bruski reported it I would probably criticize him for it.
I’ve never understood why Sacramento thinks it’s a great argument to push that they’re great for the NBA because no other professional sports league is interested in their city.
I have read the SAC forums, including comments on SAC Bee. I have to say, they are completely delusional. Not only about the current sale of the Kings (which I have a bit more sympathy for their twisting of the facts to be in their favor always, even when they are wrong). It would be nice if they were objective and recognized that the team has been sold, or that their bid being low is actually a bad thing, and not a good thing. Oh well, they can live in their bubble if they like.
BUT, once they cross the line and throw Seattle under the bus of not being a good NBA city, is where we need to go on the offensive. Lets just call it like it is. SAC was a good NBA city, WAS. It has not been for awhile now, and there is data to back it up.
While attendance is just one data point, it is a meaningful one in this case as SAC has trumpted their case by “packing the house”.
Here is the home attendance by this “rabid” fanbase over the last 6 years.
2008- NBA rank 27th
2009- NBA rank 30th
2010- NBA rank 29th
2011- NBA rank 29th
2012- NBA rank 27th
2013- NBA rank 30th
This is not a one or two year blip on the radar. This is a trend, a theme, the real world. Those 19 years of sell outs are long gone. If nobody is going to games, and their local TV/media market being as small as it is, how can anyone paint a picture of success for this team (fan support or revenue)?
The bid came in low because that is what pencils out for that market. If they stay in SAC and want to match the offer, then they will knowingly be losing a hell of alot of $. Their is no upside available to the investors for this to make sense for them, and they know it.
If SAC wants to pretend that the NBA is on their side, they need to answer the question as to why. I am convinced that the NBA cares for SAC no more than they care for any other city. They are not special, never have been and never will be.
That would explain why burkle is not part of the ownership group to buy the kings.
They see the NBA as their only major asset, especially nationally. Otherwise Sacramento is only known as a factory of repressing laws.
Maybe that explains the “You’ve got Burkle?” comment from Stern that Sacramento has been clinging on for dear life to. Maybe it was genuine surprise that they had an agreement in place with him, rather awe because Burkle is just sooo amazing
I’ve never understood why Sacramento thinks it’s a great argument to push that they’re great for the NBA because no other professional sports league is interested in their city.
They’re the second-biggest one-team market, right behind Orlando (Portland is the third-biggest):
http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_Household_DMA_Ranks2.pdf
Well, he does have a reputation of “buying low, selling high”. Not a bad policy, but probably doesn’t work well with anything related to sports. The risk in sports may not fit that position.
Again, I say that there is someone behind Mastrov with big pockets if he is going to be able to come up to the Hansen group’s purchase price. He cannot do it by himself. And he has to be a minority owner since his personal net worth is not high enough for him to be contributing even a 5th of what is needed. Now, that is more than I could contribute, but I am also not being touted as the hero for any city.
He doesn’t have enough net worth to even maintain a team. He would eventually have to sell because he could not maintain the team duirng hard years.
Portland isn’t a one pro sports team anymore. They have the Timbers
I noticed several references in this thread to the Sacto bid being $100 million low. Has some information come out that says this or are we speculating? It’s been a busy weekend for me, so I’m not up on everything.
I posted a comment in that Bruski article pointing out that Sacramento shares its market with the Bay Area NFL and MLB teams, and it got removed. I think that’s the worst thing about Bruski-you call him on his hometown bias, and it gets the ban stick.
As for the Sacramento fans, they have a right to be angry, and if they want to lash out at “Seattle trolls” more power to ‘em. If I ever lose my mind and post at StR, I’ll use the Fremont Troll as my avatar…
I think its insulting if the reported offer of 80-100 million less than Hansen’s is supposed to do anything. They have to match the deal straight up or go even higher. With that said and already known by most of us, the thing to keep in mind is the Maloofs want to make as much money as possible.
The Maloofs bought the team for 156 million. They have lost money in a lot of years because of poor big money support. The ROI may have been negative if they were FORCED to take the Mastrov low ball offer.
I dont think Mastrov ponies up anywhere close to what is needed as the franchise is worth considerably less in Sacramento.
Brian to your point on Burkle. That would make total sense of the infamous words by Stern, “Youve got Burkle.” Maybe it was meant more as you got Burkle? How’d you do that? Everyone on either side thinks they have this in the bag, its what us homer fans do.
Journalists on the other hand have to be careful with that sentiment
I noticed several references in this thread to the Sacto bid being $100 million low. Has some information come out that says this or are we speculating? It’s been a busy weekend for me, so I’m not up on everything.
Check Mitch’s twitter.
I think Aldridge wrote recently that Burkle tried to buy the Kings “for a distressed price” back in 2011.
In terms of population, sure, but even that ranking greatly outpaces where they were sitting in terms of median income and income per capita (40th and 49th) in the 2000 Census, and we know things have gotten much bleaker for that city since. I mean, if the Kings leave, I don’t think another league is going to see that void as a great opportunity. Even the ownership of the A’s scoffed at the idea of moving to Sac in light of their efforts to lure them.
It’s the same assumption that goes, when the Sonics left I could just become a Sounders fan.
It is as if there still remains a large population of generic “sports fans” that everybody is a part of, and you are an instant consumer of whatever sport is put in front of you.
There is some substitution effect, but that only goes so far.
If they could have brought the A’s there, for example, then would all the former Kings fans go watch baseball?
The single sport market competes with more than just sports.
Sacramento’s real problem isn’t the size of their market, but the demographics, how much that fan is worth.
A market that size, with no other sports franchises, would be able to easily counter any Hansen offer (and there would be zero reason for the Maloofs to sell) if the wealth was there.
It simply isn’t.
(Rant)
So, to Brian’s point, you can rearrange the numbers on a spreadsheet all you want, but the bottom line is that Hansen overpaid for the franchise if it were to stay in Sacramento, but not if it were in Seattle.
It really does show just how on the mark Chris Hansen is on the market valuation. With more practice he could start a side business in the stock market :^) (/rant)
This ^ is why there is a “variance” in the offer.
And that might explain why a second group started to show up, a lack of confidence in Burkle.
I love NBC’s football page. I think Mike Florio does a great job on that end. For the basketball side, I really like Kurt Helin. I think he does a great job also. Some of the guys under them (like Bruski) are just terrible though.
On Forbes http://www.forbes.com/teams/sacramento-kings/
Its says that revenue per an is $24 and the market value is worth a 150 million. With a metro area of 2.1 million people
For the Seahawks http://www.forbes.com/teams/seattle-seahawks/
The revenue per fans says $30 and the market value is 159 million. With a metro area of 3.5 million.
The market value for the Mariners is 262 million and the revenue per fan is $50.
Im not really sure how I would put that into terms for our market for comparison with Sacramento. I mean the Seahawks are close to the Kings but only play 10 home games a year. BTW the Seahawks are valued at over a Billion dollars. Anyone have any idea how to analyze those numbers and make them relevent for the Sonics. I do know that the Sports value to the valuation is around 160 million I think.
Im just trying to figure how much the markets are different. If ours is et at 525 million (which I dont doubt for a second). If we figure what the market in Sacramento is worth we can compare that with what Mastrov is bidding and figure if he is making a pitch to get the team at Fair MArket Value or if he is actually serious and the low bid was because the unknown of the loan and if it was in the PSA
*sigh* Can we please stop the attendance argument. It’s meaningless and a tactic OKC pulled every other minute.
Victor Oladipo is pretty good.
Anyone else psyched that we turned the clocks forward an hour? I love having more daylight this time of year. We’re bbqing tonight, can’t wait.
Yeah I think good points on Burkle. Owning an NBA takes bucks and a serious commitment to keep it going at a very high operating cost over the long haul as the upside is in the sale of the asset. Great owners I can think of are people like Dr. Buss, Paul Allen, the group that owns the Celtics. Burkle doesn’t sound like he wants to own a team for the love of it and commitment to it and the community. The NFL to Los Angeles is where the big bucks are and I’m guessing that’s why he’s got the ownership in AEG (and let’s face it, he will be an owner of the Lakers that’s pretty sweet).
I think this is going to come down to the April 3 presentations and it is going to be whichever potential owner & city has everything lined up and tied up the best. I think Stern will be sure the Maloof’s get what they were supposed to get from the Hansen deal no matter what — that was clear from his comment on Friday.
I do think Sacramento will bridge the difference, whether or not they’ll have everything else as far ahead as Chris Hansen and Seattle I don’t know. We’re almost through Design Review, that’s huge.
My Oladipo man-crush just reached the level that I felt the need to confess it to my wife.
Conversely, Trey Burke’s bid for relevance in this game is so low it’s like…like…well I can’t think of a low bid to compare it to at the moment but give me some time.
How about looking at the Golden State Warriors sale? They stayed in the San Francisco market and sold for $450 million. San Francisco is a top five or six market in the U.S. and Sacramento is the 20th or 21st. Golden State was pretty horrible and the franchise a joke and it sold for $450 million so I would say the Kings should be worth about $300 to $350 million tops in the Sacramento market.
Burkle wouldn’t be able to be a part of NFL ownership in LA so long as he owns the Penguins in Pittsburgh, correct?
There are fair points to be made on the weakness of the Sacto ownership group, their low bid, etc. Burkle/Mastrov may very well not be inclined to match the Hansen-Ballmer purchase price, and the Sacto bid might not even make it in the door. But assuming for a moment that they do eventually match the Hansen-Ballmer number, the Sacto bid still fails on the key point: the arena.
Paraphrasing from a thread on the site that will not be named, a skeptical Kings fan wrote that the NBA wants “a viable arena plan with viable NBA owners and they want the funding to be there now.” The reply to that comment neatly summarizes Sacto’s myopia: “Sac has an arena plan and council support so that’s equal to Seattle.” We all know how far from reality that statement is. The NBA has no such illusions. All other things being equal, when they assess the viability of both groups’ progress on a new arena, Seattle wins going away.
Meanwhile, Cody Zeller’s ceiling looks like “rich man’s Michael Doleac”.
I think Chris Hansen may have overpaid and yet I don’t because the SuperSonics name recognition makes it valuable. It would be one thing if it was a sort of mediocre to average franchise for 41 years in Seattle, rarely making it to the playoffs, rarely having a winning season. But the SuperSonics were awesome for a long period of time — consistently — and won an NBA championship and make it to finals so the brand of the SuperSonics in Seattle has a lot of intangible value.
Bruski is not adhering to Journalistic (capital J) standards. Every writer has a bias, it’s what you do with or about that bias that counts.
On this subject, it is academic.
Journalism schools are dead. UW folded their school into a Department almost a decade ago.
It’s a shrinking profession.
I call myself a writer, having not walked across the compass on the floor of the UW Com building to the west side of the building. Staying on the east side I, ironically, am academically qualified to call myself a media critic ( Technology and Society focus). So, in my academic opinion, Bruski is failing to perform as a journalist.
He wouldn’t be able to get his trash published in a newspaper of any merit. His unsubstantiated reporting borders on the absurd.
I think he could — I don’t remember the NFL not allowing NHL owners to be investors. Paul Allen owns the Trail Blazers and the Seahawks (maybe one day the Mariners!). Unless maybe the NHL won’t allow owners to own other professional league teams?
Ohhhh Doleac. Never was a head more oddly rectangular than yours.
The NFL has a rule that an owner can’t own another sports team in a different city that also has an NFL team, I’m just not sure how it works with minority ownership, which I assume Burkle would be a part of for an NFL team.
Are the fans buying used Ford trucks or a new Mercedes from Barrier Motors?
What is the value of those two advertisements?
The value of the customer is important, it really, really, is.
Are there billionaires sitting court side eating stale popcorn, sitting next to Jene Enerson, maybe a CEO of Microsoft, or something?
Herman Munster
Posturing and a possible public scolding.
I think it can’t be controlling interest.
He could not. The only way it is acceptable is it is the same city or if the league doesn’t have an NFL team in that city. That is why Paul Allen can own the Blazers and Seahawks, and also why Sam Kroenke had to transfer ownership of every Denver sports team he held to his son when he bought the Rams.
I don’t blame Sacramento fans at all for the low attendance. They haven’t made the playoffs since 2006, they hate the owners, the arena is old and in a bad location, the economy is depressed, and they have had the threat of relocation going for at least two years now.
They only time I think low attendance should really be an indictment of the fans is when the team is good and people still aren’t showing up (such as with Tampa Bay in baseball).
They could call their show ”Cirque du so LAME”
Stan Kroenke owns the Denver Nuggets and about 40% of the St. Louis Rams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Kroenke
What substantiated reports do we have ?
It’s become increasingly difficult to separate substantiated and unsubstantiated reports. Tweets, articles, rehashing, etc.with rumor & speculation thrown in has really confused and blurred what we know and what we think we know. A fact based Reference page would be really helpful. I know I certainly get lost at times distinguishing what’s real & pertinent vs the Noise.
As long as that 40% is not controlling interest i don’t think there is a problem.
I am pretty sure that he transferred ownership to his son to get by the restriction. I think they are maybe owned by a parent company though.
Of course i am probably wrong on that.
Personally, I get really tired of all the name calling on both sides. Yes, we do our share of mud-slinging and name calling on this site. I just find it childish insecure behavior, unnecessary and distracting. Does it feel good sometimes ? Sure it does. Just gets old.
Also, I am pretty sure the LA arena deal is dead. Maybe the City of Industry plan could work (this is pretty close to the inland empire which has about 4 million plus people so it isn’t like they wouldn’t go to games along with LA County and surroundings.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-sources-aeg-s-downtown-l-a-stadium-proposal-looks-like-a-no-go-for-the-nfl-000059874.html
Oladipo put Trey Burke in a straight jacket. Locked him up full court. That guy is a defensive monster c
Indiana-Michigan. Mmmmmm yummy.
March rules.
This this this.
Pulls down double digit rebounds while locking down one of the best PGs in the nation? Sign me up. Love this guy.
What I don’t get is how NBC national lets a guy like this on their payroll?
Because in this situation all of Sacramento is reading what he has to say and they say it is golden. We read it and we hate on it. The job of a journalist these days is to get people to read what they are saying. The context and truth of that context matters none anymore. The integrity is dead for a lot of these hacks. These aint our fathers’ journalists.
Yeah, extremely impressive. Olapido is now very high on the radar.
I think not. Can’t own an NFL team and a team from another league in a city which also has an NFL team. Doing so would put him in competition with the Steelers or something like that.
As been posted here many times - - It’s the MaGoof’s team to sell and they don’t have to sell to anyone should they reject the Hansen bid.
Then what do we make of Stern’s comment? “If an owner decides to exit our league, it doesn’t retain the ultimate right to tell us where it’s going to be located.” That comment seems to fly in the face of what was stated here many times.
Doesn’t the NBA also have rules against having ownership in 2 different NBA teams? If so…. wouldn’t that also explain why Burkle isn’t trying to buy the Kings? He’s bidding on AEG which owns 30% of the Lakers. Would also make perfect sense that he’s heading up the investment for the arena, though.
Sorry if I’m late to this, I havent been able to catch up on the last couple of threads, has it been confirmed that the mastrov bid is 100m less than hansen/ballmer?
I don’t read the Sac forums and have no interest in doing so.
Every market has its shills. Why give Bruski this much attention? Isn’t it a little hypocritical to call him out when Art Thiel is getting almost as bad?
Bruski’s comeuppance is coming in about two weeks. Leave him to wallow in his own dipshittery. He’s not worth wasting the time or the bandwidth.
CMD says $80 million, but Mitch says around $100 million. I trust Mitch more since he was spot on on this 3 days before Stern said anything and CMD has said things like $30 million. Either way it is substantial.
everything is right EXCEPT for the claim that “we are the ones taking their team.” no, we are not. we are hopeful fans sitting around and keeping our fingers x’d, just like the are — although we’re each hoping for different outcomes. let’s not kid ourselves. fans have no agency here at all. this is a game played waaaay over the fans’ heads. and that is what we have in common w/sacramento fans, and fans of every other team except the green bay packers: we don’t own or control one iota of the team we like, or in our case, hope to like.
Bruski, Shmooski - - Who gives a Rooski !!! I certainly don’t.
Difference is Art Thiel has pulled a Dan Rather..left the building..working at an irrelevant blog these days while Bruski is with NBC
Well I guess they are still the same as NBC is pretty darn irrelevant as well.
Maryland basketball makes me want to cry.
I didnt start the attendance argument. This was in response to Bruski, Carmichael, and every other SAC homer out there who is using this as the foundation of their argument. Time to poke holes in their game, its the 4th quarter in this fight.
Attendance is irrevelant to this transaction.
A-Sefarian Jenkins busted for DUI.
kevin, it’s cold comfort, but turgeon has the terps pointed in the right direction. meanwhile — and you were probably a little bit young in 2002 — i still remind myself that the team formerly known as the best basketball school never to make the final four did, and then went on to win it all. so there’s that.
big 10, here come kevin’s terps!
Still better than my Huskers.
I’m a 2004 grad. :)
Sometimes I wonder if Randolph Hearst is all behind this
Nope, it’s David Stern. He makes Hearst look like Atticus Finch.
Also, I think people sometimes focus too much on attendance as a measurement of fan support. TV ratings/audience sizes should be considered as well. Attendance can be manipulated up or down fairly easily, and a lot of fans can’t afford to go to games anymore. Some of it depends on companies buying tickets and the team donating them.
Also have to consider that attendance figures are based off tickets sold, not actual butts in the seats.
Here is a gem, Bruski in reference to Seattle City Council and I-91.
“@ArenaSeattle: @aaronbruski Something to keep in mind: They’ve made exceptions to I-91 in the past. Made exemption for the Seattle Storm of the WNBA in ’09”
His reply:
“@aaronbruski: @ArenaSeattle I’ve also heard they could choose to repeal it. Not exactly desirable from a political perspective, but plausible.”
“@aaronbruski: @sonicsrising @ChrisDaniels5 the source was SEA City Council FWIW. Daniels hijacked a conversation without any clue what I was talking about”
The only credible person to ever use the word “repeal” and not exempt died today, former councilman Richard McGiver, he was 71.
McGiver asked during the subcommittee meeting back in January 2009 why they shouldn’t just repeal the law since they were amending the Storm lease to exempt them from I-91, he was soundly rebuffed by Clark, Rasmussen, Drago (who went on and on), and Godden.
The other time somebody used the word “repeal” was CVD ranting at the council meeting that repealing the law would be met with blah, blah, blah, 74% vote, blah, blah, blah.
Also have to consider that attendance figures are based off tickets sold, not actual butts in the seats.
Right, that’s part of what I was getting at. Which is not to say attendance doesn’t matter, but it can be limited and misleading in measuring fan support, especially in basketball, where the differences between the attendance leaders and bottom-dwellers is less than in baseball or football (and also depends on the size of the arena). I think TV/radio audiences also need to be considered.
Here’s an article about how attendance numbers can be manipulated:
http://deadspin.com/5932518/phillies-sellout-streak-which-was-fake-anyway-ends-at-257-games
You get annoyed by their fans doing what any fan in a similar situation would do to the point that you stop sympathizing with them and begin to antagonize them. I get annoyed that so many of us are falling into that trap of taking things way too personally.
Resist the temptation to become the OKC d-bag who defends Clay Bennett.
This! Exactly!
I think I said it before, maybe not because I felt guilty about it, but weeks ago I just started feeling myself get really spiteful and angry towards Sacramento. Reading StR, Kingsfans, and all the twitter accounts got me pretty pissed off to the point where I found myself thinking about how good it would feel to prove them all wrong, take their team, and see how they liked that. That’s not how I want to feel, that’s not right. I’m all for us debunking specific assertions they make here, this site can have a calming effect for us Sonics fans by being a source of dissemination, and I get being pissed when they hate on our city, but we knew they would do that all along.
Just stay away. It’s hard to do it, I still find myself poking around here and there, but I made it a point to steer clear in the wake of their whale announcement, because I knew things would be ridiculous there. Do it for your own health.
I have never had the temptation to become an OKC d-bag or defend Bennett :)
I forced myself to watch a game a while back that happened to involve the Zombies — who I’d hate a bit less if they weren’t on National TV all the damn time, by the way — and I almost upchucked when they flashed to Clay Bennett and Jon Barry started gushing about how wonderful he was. It was especially disgusting to me when he continued on about how horrible it was that the Kings may be moving and that they’re working on a deal to keep them (this was a few weeks ago).
Now I appreciate Jon Barry’s Sacramento sentiments, since Sacramento to him is what Seattle is to his brother, but to praise that scumbag Bennett in the same sentence is galling. I guess he just couldn’t make the connection that what that jerk did helped precipitate what is happening to Sacramento now. Or maybe he just wanted to butter-up the head of the relocation committee…
Whenever I feel the urge to argue with a Kings fan, I just put my hands behind my back, hold an imaginary argument in my head where I am the winner, take a cleansing breath, then smile. Then I go to FB and look at cute kitty pics. Works for me! lol
Trust in Chris,
Chris, is the numbers guy
The deal maker, this is what he does for a living.
Soon they will also own that 7 % in bankruptcy court
as well. I’m sure he’s got people bidding for him
out there when it’s time to bid.
Chris has plenty of clients that wants to
be a minority owner of an NBA team ?
Chris is a successful hedge fund manager for those
reasons.
The low numbers for the Mastrov’s bid I believe is
because that group is bidding for what the Kings
franchise is worth in Sacramento which is $ 450 million.
Chris, set the standard bid for what he thinks the franchise
will be worth once it is moved to Seattle, $ 525 million.
This is good for Seattle. David Stern is basically telling
the Sacramento bidders that the $ 525 million is the
standard numbers for any bidders out there that wants to
participate. The numbers have to be comparable, or
top that numbers set by the Hansen group.
The question is the Mastrov, Burkle group willing to over
pay for a franchise to keep it in Sacramento.
Maybe.
It’s a possibility ?
But, that means Mastrov, Burkle will negotiate to have more
contribution dollars from the city of Sacramento, which is not
a good scenario for Sacramento.
True but tickets sold mean dollars to the ownership none the less. However some tickets are donated to charity and some are sold at a discount. It’s in these two latter areas where the count might be skewed.
We do have that data, though I’m not quite ready to share in depth and detailed info. Suffice it to say in the past few months we’ve had nearly 16,000 unique visitors, And of those who have visited there is a remarkably high number who have visited 10+ times in that period (meaning they are sticking around). On a more regular basis of people who contribute it is (obviously) a smaller number. But there are many silent readers from the Google Analytics we see.
Reading Sacramento sites is very irritating because it is basically “Frank Chopp” and misinformation about Key Arena, Schultz and Bennett arena proposals and I-91. I know it is hard to not react to their misinformation and downright being wrong, but it is going to be easier on everyone not to react. Just let them be . . . enjoy their lack of information. When the announcement is made that the Kings are moving to Seattle and becoming the Seattle Supersonics, then feel free to smile . . . just don’t gloat.
Agreed. Can’t imagine any self-respecting Sonics fan that would go to their sites and gloat if/when the team moves here. That’s cruel.
Here’s my vision of the first OKC game. In the upper levels, Seattle fans slowly unfurl banners that show Clay Bennett in various physical predicaments, sort of like the lengthening pictures at Disney’s haunted mansion-Clay clinging to a tree branch with Gundabad Wargs nipping at his heals, Clay with an Alien popping out of his chest, Clay on a spit with an apple in his mouth-maybe even Clay in the 8th circle of Dante’s Inferno (the circle where fraud is punished), with excrement pouring from his mouth (don’t blame me-that’s how fraud is punished in Dante’s Inferno); then we start chanting, “We like Clay ! Clay is nice! We like Clay with carrots and rice!”
Of course, I am a particularly disturbed individual and was especially shattered by losing the sonics.
In regards to the, “We’re the ones taking their team” sentiments, I must state that is premature.
For all of the ignorant fans, let me point out three important things.
1.) The Maloofs tried to screw over Sacramento several times. They backed out of an arena deal that the NBA, AEG, Sacramento, and they themselves agreed to. They have NEVER negotiated in good faith. They maintained for years that they would NEVER sell, and then made a closet deal with the Hansen/Balmer group. Sacramento isn’t trying to rob Hansen/Balmer, as much as it’s trying to get a fair shot. Anyone trying to claim that this isn’t going to factor into the BoG decision is woefully uninformed.
2.) Anyone who is trying to compare this scenario to KC, or Rochester or Cincy or even the Seattle group leaving to OKC, is missing a very important fact: Sacramento has shown incredible dedication to the team. Everywhere the Kings had been before didn’t show that support. The local government is putting up huge funds, and working hard to keep the team (something Seattle didn’t do). The Kings belong to Sacramento. They are not vagabonds. If that’s the case, then the Heat, Magic, T-Wolves, Raptors Clippers, Jazz, Grizzlies, Hornets and Bobcats have no real ties to their cities either. If you mean to say that 1/3 of the league’s teams have no ties to their current city, you’re crazy.
3.) This is far from a done deal. KJ, Burkle and many others have been meeting with Commissioner Stern for some time to talk about the legitimacy of this happening. If this was a done deal, he wouldn’t waste his time with them. That would set an atrocious precident for teams negotiating with cities, or other owners who want into the league. Those who think it is otherwise are uninformed, or from Seattle and being hugely blind homers.